HP Responds on N-Trig Problems.

Discussion in 'HP Slate' started by Bronsky, Mar 16, 2011.

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  1. thadwald

    thadwald Scribbler - Standard Member

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    I think (and hope) that you are inferring more from this information than HP intended to communicate. The description of the problem is quite specific; The pen acts erretically near the screen edge.

    The problems that have come up again and again on this forum include:
    • The pen skips ink
    • The controller switches to touch while the pen is in contact with or near the screen
    • The position of the pen changes rapidly while inking and causes spikes.
    While solving these problems may have a positive effect on the one listed by HP, I don't think that this necessarily means that HP has closed its investigation on N-trig issues on the Slate.

    I also think that one would notice these issues on all Slates. If you are interested in checking your Slate, switch to Dual Mode and try to ink with the pen. This mode should work without flaw.
     
  2. krelvinaz

    krelvinaz Systems Analyst

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    The problem with this is that there is no choice to be made. Wacom doesn't make a product with this size screen. Period.. there is no option.

    So if you want the slate the size it is, there was really only one choice. N-Trig or Nothing.

    Personally, I didn't order my slate with Inking in mind at all. I'd never thought of that at the time I ordered it. I was more interested in Win7 support and the size of the device.

    However, as I waited for my Slate like many of the rest of you, I learned more about what Inking was and how that might be useful to me. It would be greatly useful.

    However, my attempts at it have failed pretty much for two reasons (I think)...

    1) Is the N-trig digitizer. it is not very smooth, jumps around and is not accurate enough for this for me.

    2) The way I write is not conducive to a good inking experience. I don't write cursive at all, havent since sometime around mid-Jr High. I write in block, basically all caps with capped letters simply larger than the non-capped letters but they all look the same to win7.

    The result, is it can't tell what is capped or not, many times capping the entire word. Attempting to correct, just takes more time than it is worth sometimes taking upwards of a minute to write a simple line of text.

    Not useful.

    I did get to play with a Fujitsu tabletPC a while back which had a Wacom digitizer in it and inking was better, but still hopelessly still the same. I found it hard to deal with the TabletPC as well as I had a hard time getting it into an angle where it was comfortable to write without it in my lap. Its way to heavy for that.

    I actually had some ask to see it while at my desk and used it like my Slate for about 3-4 minutes before I realized I was holding it like the slate and it was killing my arms.

    As for Inking... don't think it is going to work for me, but I use my slate all the time, every day. Carry it with me where ever I go.

    If Watcom makes a screen size like that in the future, then it would be an actual option. Not sure I can deal with a 12" screen for what I use it for until then. I would still most likely have issues inking even if the Slate had a Watcom in that size.
     
  3. TheWerewolf

    TheWerewolf Care for a bite?

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    Technically speaking, you infer - they imply - but that aside, your interpretation adds a bunch of assumptions about the needs of artists and HP's *intent* that honestly, I don't even crossed their minds.

    Here's the entire statement from HP:

    "DESCRIPTION
    The pen does not track straight near the edge of the display screen, and unexpectedly moves to the edge of the screen and back to the original inking spot. This issue primarily occurs on the left side of the screen in landscape and full screen mode.

    SCOPE
    HP Slate 500 Tablet PC

    RESOLUTION
    This behavior is normal for this specific tablet, and no functionality is lost. Therefore, no corrective action is needed."

    Your conclusion is: "They weren't trying to address the wider and more demanding arena of general usage (art creation, general business work, consumer use...) and they're not going to update or improve their design now..."

    I'm at a loss to see how this one defect - which isn't universal - actually impacts those areas of use. If it was poor tracking across the entire screen, then I'd agree with you.

    If anything, I'd have argued that the choice of nTrig as a pen technology - when they *have* to have known it would be detremental to art-oriented Slate users given their past grief with the tx2, is far more an argument that they were thinking 'business users' and not artists (as I noted in my comment).

    As for them not updating or improving their design, it's fairly rare for any computer maker to change designs in a retail product like that. It tends to be corrected in a future model (which hopefully, will have Wacom tech).

    Consider the iPhone 4 grip of death. It didn't get fixed until the Verizon model (kinda) and it took a huge outcry to get them to do something as trivial as give out free rubber bumpers.

    But of course, you're entirely entitled to continue with your preferred interpretation - it's a more or less free country. :)
     
  4. TheWerewolf

    TheWerewolf Care for a bite?

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    Whoa there, amigo. I actually *agree* with you.

    I understand that there is no Wacom in 8.9" and that that's a big factor in why HP chose nTrig. I do know they have a 10.1" screen though and that's just slightly larger than the iPad - and a 8.4" that's just slightly smaller than the Slate... so it's hard to say what might be coming out soon.

    What I was trying to say is that yes, if there had been some way to get the Slate as is with a Wacom pen, it would be better - and that HP had to have known the nTrig was going to be a problem since they went through this with the tx2.

    Perhaps the Slate 600 will be 10.1", Wacom based and targetted more towards artists and people who want Wacom.

    I'm surprised that you're having all the problems with ink - for normal writing, (ie: Onenote and Journal without converting to text) I've never had even a bit of problems writing... and as a long time TabletPC user - I've gotten the hand of writing for it - but yes, I do find some odd quirks with the nTrig which is really quite odd since Microsoft worked very closely with nTrig on this.

    And yeah, trying to use my Tosh M700 as a tablet at 4.5lbs is exactly why I got the Slate. It's why as nice as the EP121 is, it's not going to work for me. Too big, too heavy - waaaay too expensive

    Remember, I'm the guy who actually doesn't mind drawing and sketching on his Slate. :)

    Side note to that - I use Photoshop CS3 on my Slate and really don't have much in the way of problems with it even with fairly large files. The ONLY areas I find it annoying is the wonky WinTab support nTrig gives (Adobe should just get on with it and support Ink) and the fact that the tool layout isn't really optimisedfor a 1024x600 screen.
     
  5. darkmagistric

    darkmagistric Scribbler - Standard Member Senior Member

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    Wacom may not make a 8.9 inch screen, but they do make a 8.4, 9.7, & 10.4. If HP wanted Wacom in the device they would have used one of those screen sizes.

    The only other wacom alternative to the Slate500 is the aging Ls800 which uses the 8.4 screen. I was hoping the Slate could replace my Ls800 but the wacom digitizer still makes it more usable for art purposes.

    What I don't get is why no one is using the 9.7 wacom screen. Everyone's ripping off the Ipad design wise, and the Ipad uses a 9.7 screen. Even the Hp Touchpad is using the 9.7 ratio. Making a Wacom Penabled Windows tablet PC with a 9.7 screen just seems like a no-brainer, but no one is attempting it.
     
  6. darkmagistric

    darkmagistric Scribbler - Standard Member Senior Member

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    Despite my N-trig complaints I haven't had this problem with my Slate. Ironically this is a much more common problem with Wacom tablets. Usually the edges/corners of the screens have all sorts of cursor bugs. (more prone for older ones like the Ls800, but eliminated with the ep121)
     
  7. krelvinaz

    krelvinaz Systems Analyst

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    I don't have much of a problem just writing, but unless I can convert to text, the notes are not very useful. I don't have OneNote anywhere else except on the Slate. Converting notes by retyping them wouldn't be a problem as I am a fast typist, but my work workstation is old (XP) and still has Office 2003 on it. Upgrading or an inexpensive option to add OneNote doesn't seem to be an option.

    I just didn't find my scribble all the useful in a meeting when I couldn't do anything with it after the meeting.
     
  8. darkmagistric

    darkmagistric Scribbler - Standard Member Senior Member

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    As a fellow photographer and retoucher (real estate) I can attest that the Slates netbook guts are more then capable for light photoshop work (CS3 only). Real Estate photography is much more about small overall images, so there is really no need for 10+ megapixel images or anything. Clone Stamping, slight repainting, etc all are capable on the Slate. While a Wacom pen would work a hell of a lot better, the Slate is more then up for basic tasks.
     
  9. thierryb

    thierryb Scribbler - Standard Member Senior Member

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    The main issue is much more erratic click than erratic position.

    Try to select a text then copy it using only the pen. You can select, but when you want to copy, often the long click cancels the selection instead of opening the menu to copy.

    Try to change the size of the taskbar or change the size of one part of a window by long clicking the edge and draying. Often you will not drag but click again and obtain another result.

    And no problem to do that on my TM2.

    In fact, my slate is more precise than my TM 2. And even much more on the edges. The issue is the detection of contact, click, pressure. And this explains the noise of the pen.

    These. points are the main reason why I do not recommend to buy a Slate, or only as a secondary tabletpc. As primary tabletpc, buy a Wacom one.
     
  10. purezerg

    purezerg Pen Pal - Newbie

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    if any ps work needs to be done it's usually done on my HP8730W or my i7-980x desktop. i shoot with Nikon D3x or phaseone P65+ (65mp camera)

    actually my slate is for outlook, streaming tv, surfing, news on nuclear fallout... server admin stuff, onenote, garmin ,google maps, facebook, 'thumbdrive', alarmclock, streaming radio, calender, powerpoint, excel and pdf. it is actually replacing my phone on most duties.
     
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