HP Pavilion 11 x2

Discussion in 'Hewlett Packard' started by fatxander, Oct 30, 2013.

  1. Analytical Guy

    Analytical Guy Pen Pal - Newbie

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    It was a nice review, all right... although I'm not sure it matters that much at the moment, since there is absolutely nowhere in the world that you can buy this model :-o

    It doesn't seem to be in the physical Microsoft stores, and it is also sold out in the online Microsoftstore.com.

    I wonder if the online store will get new ones before the "Graduation" sale ends.
     
  2. jtsmall

    jtsmall Scribbler - Standard Member

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    I agree, an odd situation indeed. It's as if someone or most likely many were caught by surprise with this X2 variant's desirability.

    Some PC reviewers do not write or talk favorably about the hybrid form factor and evaluate them against more capable Ultrabooks. This is my third transformer hybird (ASUS Transformer Prime, HP Envy X2 and Pavilion 11 X2) plus six additional tablets and it's by far the overall best. For the longest run time and best build construction, the Envy X2 gets the nod albeit one has plenty of time to admire it.

    HP has success in this category which makes it even more surprising the Pavilion 11 X2 with fanless Haswell Core i5 has been so roundly overlooked. Personally I'll take 8+ hours of battery life with a speedy Haswell Core i5, ULV or not, over a less capable Bay Trail Atom (some rebranded up through Pentium).

    -jts
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2014
  3. pkmon

    pkmon Pen Pal - Newbie

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    Hi jtsmall,

    Thanks for all your inputs and detailed analysis. The HP Pavillion 11 x2 i5 does seem to be the machine of choice, but looks like availability even in the US is limited, and in other countries, HP is not even mentioning it and so it could take 6 months or more before they appear. Sigh !

    I am only able to get the Pavillion x2 pentium version. Having now had to chance to try both and in hindsight, IF the Pavillion 11 x2 i5 was not available, would you reconsider the pentium version but with dual battery ?

    At the stores here, I could only put my hands on the HP Pavillion 11 360 (the pavillion 11 x2 pentium is only available through mail order, and not at stores), which essentially has the same specs at Pavillion 11 x2 pentium, except that the form factor is convertible like the lenovo yoga. My first impression was that the screen was disappointing. It was extremely dull (even with brightness put to 100%) and lacked vibrancy despite good specs (1366 x 768 pixels is actually my preferred resolution for Windows 8 since in desktop mode, a resolution of 1980 x 1080 makes everything very small). I would believe the Pavillion 11 x2 whether pentium or i5 would have the same screen. Are you satisfied with the screen ?

    Given the lack of choices, I am reconsidering the Asus T100 again. I appreciate the light weight, and while screen size is 10", it appears a lot more vibrant than the Pavillion's. But I would like to refer again to your earlier post around benchmarks (reproduced below):

    " We now have a set of PassMark CPU scores to compare (apples to apples)

    i5-4200U = 3321 Typical Ultrabook
    i5-2420M = 3177 Toshiba R835-P70 Thin & Light 13.3"

    i5-4202Y = 2680 HP Pavilion 11 X2
    i5-4210Y = 2247 Dell Venue 11 Pro

    N3520 = 1894 HP Pavilion 11 X2 Bay Trail (Pentium) variant

    Z3770 = 1326 Dell Venue 11 Pro
    Z3740 = 1062 ASUS T100, Dell Venue 8 Pro
    Z2760 = 1062 HP Envy X2 "


    I was really surprised to see the Asus T100 with a Z3740 having the same score as HP Envy with Z2760. I have read in many places that the baytrail atom with quad core to have much superior performance to the earlier generation of atom. Any views on this ?

    Thanks
     
  4. jtsmall

    jtsmall Scribbler - Standard Member

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    That's a tough question. My short answer is yes if I must have one now - as much as I like the Envy X2 at times the lag loading pages and running desktop applications, especially Lightroom, can be unbearable, and the Pavilion 11 X2 both with the Pentium N3520 and especially the Core i5-4202Y both are plenty fast for my use (but note a different take in message #42), even Lightroom and Photoshop. I suspect the Pentium N3520 with dual batteries would provide at or over 10 hrs of honest run time. My primary reservation with that model is that the 64 GB SSD will prove too little storage (I've seen it listed with 128 GB SSD). Earlier in this thread one user of the 3510 was satisfied with run time and performance (see message #36). I suspect he had a dual battery version as he was seeing all-day use.

    If you can wait I would think either more i5's will become available perhaps even with improved specs in some way. HP must surely know they have a desirable hybrid with the ULV i5.

    As to the 360, I find it an interesting concept but more weight compared to an undocked Pavilion 11 X2 tablet. I find the X2 tablet comfortable to hold for extending periods when the keyboard is not essential. So I personally would pass on the 360. I recall reading some con that seemed signficant but I do not recall it now. Perhaps a quick look at several review sites will firm up the pros and cons if this form factor appeals to you.

    I am pleased with the Pavilion 11 X2's UWA screen but it's not as good as the IPS on the Envy X2. Still not a deal breaker by any means.

    Personally I would choose the 10.1" if I planned to use the tablet undocked most of the time. If, however, you want to use the device as an ultrabook with a good keyboard, I would stay with the X2 11.6" style. If I required a larger screen then I'd switch to an ultrabook or a thin & light.

    I too was surprised at the PassMark scores for the Z3770 Bay Trail. My copy of the Dell Venus 9 Pro (a Z3740D) seems faster than the Envy X2 however to answer your question I'd have to look closely at how the PassMark scores are weighted.

    -jts

    UPDATE 5/7/14

    PassMark lists the CPU score as 679. The 1062 is from a PassMark Performance Test (http://www.passmark.com/products/pt.htm) I ran on my Envy X2 and I will look further into this discrepancy. The PassMark CPU score is here PassMark - Intel Atom Z2760 @ 1.80GHz - Price performance comparison and I would go with that number and correct my posts accordingly.
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2014
  5. jtsmall

    jtsmall Scribbler - Standard Member

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    Ed Bott heard our cry in the wilderness and provides a degree of solace in his April 25, 2014, ZDNet column asserting that hybrid PCs are finding a foothold. In fact Ed states, '...most fascinating of all, the market is finally beginning to awaken to the possibility that you can combine a tablet and a PC in the same hardware package. Microsoft calls these hybrid devices; Intel calls them “2-in-1s.” But whatever you call them, sales appear to be picking up.

    '... those hybrid and ultramobile devices, which are essentially PCs with detachable keyboards, are the fastest growing group of all, with sales poised to triple between 2013 and 2015.'

    See As iPad sales slow, hybrid PCs begin to find a foothold | ZDNet

    -jts
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2014
  6. Analytical Guy

    Analytical Guy Pen Pal - Newbie

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    I have an Asus T100, and the only reason (or at least the main reason) I was going to drop it for the Pavilion x2 is that I think an 11" keyboard would be a little easier to type on than a 10" keyboard. (Also, mostly because it only has 2 GB of RAM, the Asus can slow to a crawl when I try to simultaneously open a dozen tabs in Firefox.)

    That said, there are a few huge advantages to the Asus T100:

    1. I bought the 64 GB model for $349 plus tax, so I would be a lot less devastated if something bad happened to it, vs. if I had bought a $1000 machine.

    2. It's only 1.2 pounds!! Other than the iPad Air, I can't think of any other 10" device that weighs as little as that.

    3. It has 11 hours of battery life! I can't think of any other tablet with that kind of battery life, unless said tablet has a second battery in the keyboard stand.

    4. When people ask me the name of the device, I like to tell them with a straight face "It's got kind of a weird name... The 'Anus Transformer'…?" (I pronounce it with the same meter and spoken accent as if I were saying "garbage disposal.")

    I then think about it for a second, and correct myself on the name, still acting like I'm not 100% sure. Always good for a laugh! :)

    5. Lately, I've been taking it to work meetings, and even using it to project via HDMI onto the 1920 x 1080 HDTVs in our conference rooms. (After all, even with the keyboard attached, it weighs less than the Lenovo Yoga.)

    I have a "micro HDMI to HDMI" adapter, and I use the "Extend this Display" option. The T100 has no problem driving its own display and the 1080p HDTV display at the same time.

    6. The T100 seems to work just fine with our ActionTec Screenbeam Pro, if I want to project via WiDi to our HDTV at home. That's more than I can say for a Sony Vaio machine.

    7. I'm not 100% sure of this, but I think that it never gets hot, it has no fan, and it is, therefore, completely silent.

    So, there are a lot of benefits to the ASUS T100. There are worse machines you could be "stuck with."


    Edit - 08-May-2014:
    It's worth mentioning that the Asus T100 trackpad kind of sucks. It doesn't affect me much because I always attach my bluetooth mouse and use Asus Smart Gesture to completely disable the trackpad, but it might affect others (i.e., the majority) who would rather use the trackpad than an external mouse.
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2014
  7. jtsmall

    jtsmall Scribbler - Standard Member

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    I personally find those solid reasons and it's why I would choose the ASUS T100 today if I were using the tablet sans keyboard dock most of the time. A tablet in hand just can't be too light and it can be too big for constant use. That is, over 10.1" in my experience is too big notwithstanding the 11.6" Envy X2 and especially the Pavilion 11 X2 work well for me sans keyboard dock.

    The issues raised initially about the limitation of 2 GB and small keyboard are particularly valid in my experience. I also use an ASUS Transformer Prime FT201 with keyboard dock. It's the all aluminum version in Adroid of the T100. RAM of 2 GB is definitely something to fear for more than casual browsing and the keyboard is much more difficult for the touch typist than that afforded by the 11.6" form factor. Additionally its track pad is wonky too, working too well and flying all over the screen when typing unless toggled off. Now that's a pain. True, one can work around this with a mouse and I like those critters but not when I'm going commando road warrior mode and want to be light and fast.

    That said, I would have purchased a T100, and may yet, if the screen were a tad more translucent and the body either a more robust polycarbonate or aluminum, like the Transformer Prime. In fact, the Dell Venue 8 Pro, a superb device, is just enough larger at 8" than the 7" ASUS built Nexus 7 that I might as well be at 10.1" and enjoy the added screen real estate. While I pair the Venue 8 Pro with the excellent MS Wedge keyboard and Logitech Ultrathin Touch Mouse the combined footprint and weight is more than the T100. Yes, a better keyboard by far but the 8" screen, while too large to hold compared to a 7" tablet is at the same time too small to 'get work done' in office mode using the keyboard and mouse setup!

    All these issues are well known engineering and ergonomic trade offs but often one doesn't know how they apply to their own use profile until tried for a reasonable period of time. OEM's like HP make many styles and see what sells well. We users pays our money and takes our choice (of course choice is good) and either learn to live with the short comings or purchase additional devices, known as horses for courses.

    In short, I believe there is no one perfect device and never will be. Even considering John Dvorak, a long time tablet grouch, in his recent PC Magazine article that once Apple [has saturated the market and] figures out that those carrying both an iPad and MBA will snap up an Apple hybrid that it will be over for the tablet!

    http://bit.ly/1ivfCWu

    Interestingly, Dvorak's argument is consistent with Ed Bott's assertion that the hybrid market is expanding and is the next big thing, already underway (see message #85 above). Ending with my ongoing experience for hybrids in general and the HP Pavilion 11 X2 Haswell Core i5-4202Y processor specifically, there's nothing quite like a real processor (Haswell Core i5) with a real SSD (Windows 8.1 cold boot or Photoshop load, either in under 5 seconds). And with the form factor of either a useable handheld tablet or docked with a second battery and connectivity as if an Ultrabook. Knowing that for the road warrior run time is king, today, beginning with 100% charge I'm seeing at this time 8:16 (hr:min) of run time on battery against a total time of 11:18 (hr:min) and, get this, 1:55 (hr:min) remaining (as estimated by PassMark's Battery Monitor desktop application).

    For $600 how could it get any better?

    -jts

    Reference: PassMark Battery Monitor http://www.passmark.com/products/batmon.htm
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2014
  8. jtsmall

    jtsmall Scribbler - Standard Member

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    As a follow up to the message directly above, the HP Pavilion 11 X2 Haswell Core i5-4202Y has achieved and exceeded the advertised 8:45 (hr:min) battery run time as documented in the attached screen shot of PassMark's Battery Monitor, Battery Care's monitor and the Window's Power icon. The hybrid was docked to the keyboard at all times and the extended session was begun at 100 percent battery charge.

    Battery Monitor (see images below) shows Time on Battery of 8:47:52 (hr:min:sec) against a Total Time of 9:07:34* with 1:00:14 Time Remaining. Eighty percent or more was in balanced power mode (up to 20% in power saver mode) with screen brightness 3 clicks above the lowest setting. Activity was mostly web browsing including Youtube and HTML5 videos. Intensive resource applications such as Adobe Lightroom and Photoshop were not used during this time.

    -jts

    * Time Total: How long the battery will last if it is fully charged. This information is normally collected from the battery itself, but if the battery pack can’t supply this information it is estimated in the BatteryMon software.

    Time on Battery: How long the computer has been running battery power. This is measured from the last time mains power was disconnected or from the point in time BatteryMon started if the computer was already on battery power at that time.

    [Note: the Pavilion 11 X2 was already on battery power when Battery Monitor was started. The exact time was in the log file but subsequently over written. My estimate is within the hour of powering on, but I cannot be more precise in my recall. There is about 40 minutes of time unaccounted for (8:48 + 1:00 = 9:48 against 9:07, so that's consistent with a WAG of 30 minutes more or less before starting Battery Monitor. The net result is the additional time not recorded increases the battery run time to perhaps as much as 9.5 to 9.75 hours when hibernation occurred at 5% remaining battery time. I cannot be more precise as I was 'getting work done' well beyond the times reflected in the last screen saves attached below.

    [The bottom line for my use with this tablet is that in the weeks I've used the Pavilion 11 X2 Core i5 on a daily basis I'm seeing very good to excellent battery life and performance allowing all day use without the need for an emergency trip to a wall plug to keep going. Keep in mind I generally do not play games but surf, read, write and develop RAW photos with Adobe Lightroom and occasionally Photoshop.
    ]

    Time Left: How much time is left before the computer runs out of power. This information is normally collected from the battery itself, but if the battery pack can’t supply this information it is estimated in the BatteryMon software.

    The time definitions above are from the help file except for my comments in [brackets] and italicized for clarity.

    Screenshot (6).jpg
    Battery Monitor.JPG Windows Power Icon.JPG
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2014
  9. jtsmall

    jtsmall Scribbler - Standard Member

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    I'm continuing to see the same excellent battery life and all day use from the PX2 11 i5-4202Y. This using Balanced Mode. I have seen 20 hours of remaining battery life reported in Power Saver Mode when the device is idling (not sleep, just screen either on or off and idling). Of course with use that number eventually returns to an insignificant difference from that reported in Balanced mode, hence I use Balance for most 'getting work done' activities.

    If using the device for intermittent light activities then I'd recommend switching to Power Saver Mode. With default settings it's quick to blank the screen as this is the largest power drain in most circumstances.

    I recommend PassMark's Battery Monitor as it agrees with Windows 8's data (which reports both batteries via the Power Icon) and provides more useful monitoring data including a real time graph and log. The current version is also free for personal use. Its former cost was the only reason I turned to Battery Care previously, itself a useful program but concerns me as it does not appear to tract both batteries simultaneously.

    -jts

    Sent from my Galaxy Note 2 using Tapatalk
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2014
  10. jtsmall

    jtsmall Scribbler - Standard Member

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    Battery life, run time and functionality behind I turned to music with some trepidation. Recall I also use the Envy X2 and sound out is an issue here. I plugged in a $10 pair of Skull Candy earphones that seal. All the better for bass. Yes, there are higher rated candidates at hand but I purposely did not reach for the Sennheisers as that would be too easy and I fear I would be biased by their awesomeness.

    I landed first on Wyman Meinzer and Doug Smith's Texas videos starting with Between Heaven and Texas here https://vimeo.com/94806393 and moved easily from video to video with escalating astonishment. The sound from the Pavilion 11 X2 i5-4202Y is rich, clear and with a solid bass bottom end. How can this be for $10 earphones? I initially backed the sound down to something below 50% but even that was way too loud and I ended up at 10% for the evening. After being immersed and awed with Meinzer's images and Smith's scores, to say nothing of his piano work, I regrettable ran though their posts in quick succession. I can assure you that I look forward to listening and watching again and again. Great works of art are like that.

    I next listened to several Alanis Morissette videos, and thanks to Vivo, equally gratifying, then to Dido. There's something about Dido's delivery. Her voice and words accompanied by scores that do not detract or drown her uniqueness, rather serve to further elevate her presence. I listened until my ears bled with pleasure yet eagerly took in more and more.

    Throughout the sound remained pristine, clear and satisfying. I have been spoiled by what were once the top Thiel speakers driven by Stereophile rated separates and this simple setup was not less satisfying in comparison. Frankly, in my experience it doesn't get any better - only more expensive. The sound was never fatiguing as it is with dirty electronics. Is it possible Intel's advanced architecture combine with a motionless SSD accounts for this phenomenon? How much do we owe to Windows 8.1 and all its associated drivers? How much to HP's execution?

    Whatever the answer, the musicality is undeniable to my ear, an ear I modestly rate as silver reserving golden for a level I can only aspire to but never achieve. I didn't expect this peak level of performance either. After a night's sleep it's likely the Sennheisers will come out at last. I believe they have found a suitable mate!

    And what about HP? I can't help but declare, with this hybrid HP is back! Those seeking a modern computing platform and all it brings to the mobile consumer need look no further. That is, unless one has needs that surpass mine and the money to throw at diminishing returns.

    If I could wordsmith a way to state this experience with a more elevated level of discourse, and not risk readers turning away in disbelief, I would. In my limited but not insignificant experience this is the best I can muster to highlight the best that HP brings to the table. The entry price is beyond a bargain. Those of us with this hybrid are best thought of as thieves.

    -jts
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2014
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