Gvido dual screen e-ink reader with Wacom EMR for Sheet Music?

Discussion in 'Hardware' started by DRTigerlilly, May 8, 2017.

  1. DRTigerlilly

    DRTigerlilly Tablet Lead Mod (Retired) Super Moderator

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    Sporting two 13.3" screens, 8GB of internal memory and a MicroSD slot, and an infrared touch switch, the device can technically display any PDF with the availability of inking.

    It is rated to have several days of battery life but at $1600 is it worth it??

    I'll be honest the pen caught my eye, and when I checked it out, I realized the tech was EMR.

    Source: The Verge

    Gvido Home Page
     
  2. violajack

    violajack Scribbler - Standard Member

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    Nope. I've already posted my thoughts elsewhere, but here are the basics again:

    We're already past this. We've been using iPads since they came out and a few adventurous folks (like me! were using a TC1100 or other tablets to do this before the iPad was a thing). eInk is late to the party and has too many disadvantages vs a traditional slate in a performance context.

    1. Backlighting. I don't need a stand light. That monstrosity still needs to be front lit in low light situations like a pit, outdoors past dusk, or certain poorly lit stages.

    2. Annotations in color. Nothing like bright green highlighter over the repeats. I'm not missing those. And bowings in blue. Try using highligher on your orchestra owned originals, that's a good way to get fired. Greyscale eInk is right back to pencil being your only option.

    3. Half page turns and vertical scrolling. I haven't played to the bottom of a page before a turn in a long time. I play 3/4 of the way down then turn the top half to the next page. If I want to use something like Xodo for better inking and faster annotation, I'll just use vertical scrolling to always keep what I'm playing near the middle. This is theoretically possible with GVIDO, but since it's not in their promotional material anywhere, I'm assuming they're stuck in the read to pages and turn paradigm. If you're a pianist, organist, or drummer and your feet are otherwise occupied, I can see having as much music as possible on screen at once being useful, but otherwise, a footpedal means you don't need two pages before you turn because there is never an interruption at the turn.

    4. Storage space. I'm currently using the lowest spec surface book and it's 128GB. Even the smallest iPad is 32GB.

    5. My sheet music is also a full computer....

    6. Price. even if I had paid full price for my surface book, it would have cost less than this.

    7. Inertia. Every actual performing musician I know (aside from one Galaxy Note Pro and me with my gadget ADD) using digital sheet music has an iPad with Forescore and has for years. Even not at all technically inclined musicians are carrying iPads.

    Sorry GVIDO, you would have been relevant about 10 years ago.
     
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  3. violajack

    violajack Scribbler - Standard Member

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    This has come up at two gigs in the last week now, so at least they're doing a good job of creating buzz by marketing it directly as a sheet music reader.

    The drummer in one group was interested. He was talking about it with the bass player, who's been on an iPad about as long as I have; he's currently on a 12.9 pro. He made the same basic points I made here - no need for two pages when you have a foot pedal, eInk doesn't light up. The drummer made the point about really needing two pages across, because on drum set, both hands and feet are occupied almost all the time. Then again, he frequently has 5 or 6 pages across two stands, so two screens may still not be enough for him. And if you have $1600 to blow, you can use two iPads in a master/slave configuration, which most pro level music readers can do. I know at least forscore on the iPad and MobileSheets on Android/Windows can do that.

    Violinist in my trio asked me about it. He tried an iPad some time ago but couldn't get used to the footpedal or the software (forscore, but many years ago). He was immediately turned off when I mentioned the lack of backlighting. He thought it was basically two iPads stuck together.
     
  4. FenderP

    FenderP Scribbler - Standard Member

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    I prefer eInk for reading vs. backlit. I've been using either an Android or PC setup for the past 5+ years (mainly PC - currently either a SP3 or the Panasonic RZ; Android was early on, and not an Apple fan at all so I'd *never* use an iPad setup) with a combination of either Music Reader or Mobilesheets and a BT pedal. I agree this idea is about 10 years too late BUT I'm still interested. I have a lot of pieces of music for big band as a bass player that are 3 - 6 pages long. The majority of my music is 2 pages, so this is great for that.

    The thing is, I don't want to use one of my PCs which has other stuff on it for this. I've always wanted a dedicated device. Sure, you can use Mobilesheets to have master/slave, and yes, I'd need a stand light ($30, meh). With GVIDO, you're at about $2k all in with the GVIDO, case, pen, and the special pedal which can also pull up the setlist (nifty idea, but we still don't know how much the pedal is going to be, either ...). I do like the fact that the pedal can be wired because with BT, I find there's a few ms lag which can be annoying. You learn to compensate for it.

    Sony's new DPT-RP1 eInk tablet has WiFi and BT, but no BT pedal support. At $699 it's ideal if you're OK with a page turner, but since it doesn't support it, you're SOL. I got the info direct from Sony in a PM on Twitter. They could enable it, and they asked me for my contact info so maybe they will reach out to find my use case to enable support for it.

    In context, given that this is basically two RP1s but dedicated (and unfortunately, less internal memory but unlike the RP1, has an SD slot so the 8GB isn't a dealbreaker), the price isn't that outrageous, but I can see where lack of backlight would be a turn off. If it was $1600 with all the accessories, I'd be more interested.
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2017
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  5. Marty

    Marty Scribbler - Standard Member Senior Member

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    @violajack I know you think Gvido is pretty much a DOA product, but I was curious...

    What if...the Gvido was say only $1000, and came with an e-ink backlight (like the Kindle Paperwhite), and they unlocked the firmware to run full Android.

    This would allow you to run other full-featured sheet music apps like Henle Library (which promise features like half-page turns).

    Would the device become more interesting for you then? (And knowing your bargain-hunting skills...that $1000 would transform into like $200. :p)

    For me, there's something really nice, really natural and tactile about an e-ink display, so much better than the glass and glare of LCD. At 13", this would become so much more for me than other tiny 8-10" e-book readers (even the more impressive ones).

    I could see myself do sketching in a cross-platform app like Medibang on a spacious canvas unhindered by UI, while browsing/looking at reference pictures on the other screen.

    I really think this could offer a tablet experience that's never been offered before.
     
  6. Kumabjorn

    Kumabjorn ***** is back Senior Member

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    I know it isn't intentional but it kind of confuses further discussion since it has consequences down the line. So I'll say it once more.

    E-ink screens are OPAQUE, they are not TRANSPARENT, hence backlighting is a no-starter. They can only have front lighting, along the edges. And on huge devices like the Sony and especially the GVIDO, those LEDs don't reach all the way so you end up with a dark spot in the middle and that defeats the hole purpose of front or side lighting.

    A device like both the new Sony and the GVIDO would need bigger bezels if they were to be equipped with LEDs.
     
  7. Marty

    Marty Scribbler - Standard Member Senior Member

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    Fair enough. ;) I should have said "front-light".

    Also, the lighting would be evenly distributed through a diffusion layer, so there wouldn't dark spot in the center:



    This is actually exactly how thin-bezeled edge-lit LCD monitors work, so 13" shouldn't be much of problem for edge LEDs. :)
     
  8. Kumabjorn

    Kumabjorn ***** is back Senior Member

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    Are there any on the market? I've been searching for years after a device like that and they always come up short. I do think the engineers one day will be able to come up with an e-ink screen translucent enough that you could use one of those one way mirrors they use in interrogation rooms, reflecting the light back on the screen but just being glass to the reader.
     
  9. Marty

    Marty Scribbler - Standard Member Senior Member

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    The largest front-lit e-ink reader I know of is the 9.7" Onyx Boox N97ML:

    [​IMG]

    I hope that Onyx will release a front-lit version the 13.3" model, as they did with the ML version of the N97.
     
  10. Kumabjorn

    Kumabjorn ***** is back Senior Member

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    So close, so close...
    Unfortunately a few inches short of what I want. E-ink in that size is almost on par with a PC and more expensive than an Android tablet, so I'm just not willing to compromise.
     
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