For the "RT is dead crowd"

Discussion in 'Microsoft' started by jnjroach, Apr 17, 2014.

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  1. jhoff80

    jhoff80 Pen Pro - Senior Member Senior Member

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    I know that dstrauss touched on similar in another thread, but this is ridiculously short-sighted. Nearly all software innovation is currently happening on the iPad, not Windows. It's another reason the WinRT framework was sorely needed... to at least attempt to jump-start innovation instead of iteration. And as for Photoshop itself, I suspect most users of Photoshop are casual users who would just as easily be served by the iPad Photoshop Touch.

    An Atom CPU isn't just going to magically make that better. Those desktop apps that you and even I love so much just aren't going to fare well in a commercial for a touchscreen tablet. And let's keep in mind that the mainstream reviewers of the Surface don't want more powerful stuff on the desktop for tablets - they want it to go away entirely.
     
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  2. efjay

    efjay Scribbler - Standard Member Senior Member

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    Are any of these features unavailable on an atom device? Are they deploying RT apps at the same level as ios? As far as I know you can get everything you list on x86 so you don't lose anything going with that platform.



    Sent from my Lumia 1020 using Tapatalk
     
  3. jnjroach

    jnjroach Technology Strategist Super Moderator

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    But with RT you get a much more stable and secure platform, ARM is a more mature Connected Standby Platform. Because of the locked down nature of RT I don't worry about users doing stuff that will screw up the system.

    We can debate until we're blue in the face, neither side will budge as change is hard...at the end of the day it doesn't matter what we think, Panos and Team we're given a greenfield opportunity and created a device that they wanted and many agree with what the created. They view the Surface 2 as their Halo Device and RT as the platform of the future, from the launch blog post:

    "As much as I love Surface Pro 2, I have a new main machine now, and it’s Surface 2. It feels amazing and is even lighter, thinner, and has longer battery life than before. We have fundamentally revamped Surface 2 to make it the most productive personal tablet ever. Trust me here. It is much faster – now with 72 graphics cores, twice the internet speed, and USB 3.0. It is even more beautiful – with an enticing new color that reflects the true color of Magnesium, a full HD screen, and a thinner and lighter design. And most importantly, it is even more productive – now with Outlook RT which is how I do email, a 3.5MP front-facing camera optimized for Skype for my video calls home or video messages when we can’t connect..."

    Panos Panay uses his Surface 2 as a hands on VP of Engineering as his mobile device and so does most of his team. I confess, I reach for my S2 over my Pro 2 for 95% of what I need/want to do...
     
  4. spinedoc77

    spinedoc77 Scribbler - Standard Member Senior Member

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    Can I connect my ipad and use it as a desktop, running CAD, photoshop, etc? That is one of the more powerful functions a full windows tablet can do, double duty as a desktop. With a dock at home and work now you have every single computing need under your arm. Neither the ipad nor RT can do that. When you have this ipad mentality you forget to see the forest because of the trees, everything has to be mobile, everything has to have the simplicity of an app. It gives rise to this "you shouldn't be running photoshop on your tablet"mentality.

    Look I get it, I didn't mean to touch a sore nerve with the ipad humor. Many people can get real work done on the ipad, but it's not going to replace desktop computers any time soon IMO, otherwise Apple would have ditched OSx a long time ago and just use iOS on their desktops. There is only so much simplicity you can force onto a program before it begins to lose functionality. You aren't going to write your masters thesis on the subway with one hand, but there is this certain undercurrent of fans who think you can and should with an ipad. The ipad was great for kickstarting the market in terms of hardware, it showed us that a tablet could be thin, light and have all day battery life. It didn't do so much on the software side versus the functionality that a desktop has.

    But then again my main argument is why not? What can't you get on an Atom tablet that you can get on RT? How much money does MS need to bleed to realize it's not the right avenue. They are not going to out ipad the ipad. Let me repeat that, they are not going to out ipad the ipad. Sure you may have some corporate consumers or IT fans that may need some very specialized uses out of RT, although I'm not sure if those even exist, but if you want to win the war then you better capture your average consumer.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 16, 2015
  5. jnjroach

    jnjroach Technology Strategist Super Moderator

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    What you're failing to realize is the use case of this site's member is small too small, most people are not looking for that mythical unicorn called the "One Device"...

    98% of the people will never touch Photoshop, that 2% that do 98% of them won't want to run it on a 10" Screen or smaller...Win32 as an Application Vehicle plateaued in the early 2000s and has been in entropy since then.

    What we as a community fail to accept is for the vast majority of users, both enterprise and consumers, need Email, Office and Browser, throw in a few LOB Applications for the professional space and some cool Apps in the consumer space... the Tablet is a Companion Device. Moving out of this niche market... most Tablet Owners have a desktop or laptop and a Tablet and they don't want our Mythical Unicorn...
     
  6. spinedoc77

    spinedoc77 Scribbler - Standard Member Senior Member

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    Yep, so there's no reason for RT if an ipad can do the job. :p

    I think there most definitely is a market for something that is "all in one". It's just not marketed correctly. I would hate to run photoshop on a 10" screen, but connected to my 32" monitor at home and it's pretty amazing. How about games? Maybe not so much for us, but maybe for the family or your average consumer who wants to enjoy more than Angry Birds? There are some true innovations out there, take something like Gestureworks where you can design and build your own onscreen touch joysticks, buttons, etc to play with PC games, hey it's windows only not RT, and when you get tired of playing on your 10" screen you can hook it up to your external monitor.

    You see, there is in fact a Post PC era but not as Jobs described it. It's more of a Post desktop era because we should all be carrying around our desktop. I know I carry around my desktop with me, yep I just slip it into a slim messenger bag and off it goes wherever I need it. The next evolution of this though is phones, which will replace tablets and desktops in the near future IMO but we are not there yet.

    The day I see desktops across the world adopting RT as there one and only OS is when I would realize that RT makes sense from any standpoint. Is that going to happen? Who knows, we are all just tech armchair quarterbacks.
     
  7. Greg_E

    Greg_E Scribbler - Standard Member

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    They also need to print to network attached printers which should be fairly simple for RT.

    Having jumped into the deep end with Android devices, I can comfortably say that I could write a thesis on my current or former 10 inch tablet, mostly because I bought a keyboard to go with each. I can also get serial connections into routers and switches, run tftp or ftp servers or clients, ssh/telnet, rdp, vnc, etc. I even have a web server running php and mysql that only cost $3 (going to try loading joomla! when I feel less sick). I can develop raw files from my digital camera even though it would be my first choice. What I can't do is join a domain and I don't have any of the nice admin tools for my MS servers like I could get if I had a full Windows tablet (might be available on RT).

    I thought about RT, but there are a couple apps for Android that I can't get on RT due to lack of foresight by the service providers.
     
  8. jnjroach

    jnjroach Technology Strategist Super Moderator

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    RT is needed for the same reason that Windows Phone is needed. A Productivity Platform doesn't need legacy software for it to functional, I can extend my RT machine through HDMI or Miracast, but yes I think Phones will become the platform, but my phone is very Tablet like.... Using RDS on my Windows Phone to my x64 machine worked very well....
     
  9. jnjroach

    jnjroach Technology Strategist Super Moderator

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    Network Printing works really well on RT, supporting older printer such as my Brother Color Laser or my HP Mono Laser and new ones that allow for MFC or WiFi Direct, I can manage Windows Servers through RDP or PowerShell. For Linux/Unix, SSH Apps are available and function as expected...

    As Windows Desktop as a Service become more mainstream it is going to be very feasible to use an RT machine without needing an x86 device at all...
     
  10. Greg_E

    Greg_E Scribbler - Standard Member

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    I'll go back to what I said before, it takes about four generations to get to the right place. iOS and Android both needed four to really get acceptable, I think RT is just a little young still and worth a watch, they'll figure it out. Way to young to kill it yet, especially as they merge win8, RT, and phone8 apps to the same code.
     
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