DIY eGPU on Tablet PC's: experiences, benchmarks, setup, ect...

Discussion in 'Hardware' started by Agent 9, Apr 1, 2011.

  1. Agent 9

    Agent 9 Scribbler - Standard Member Senior Member

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    I created this thread so those with Tablet PC's can get some info relevant to them on how to get more graphics power to their Tablet PC's by making a DIY ViDock (using an expresscard adapter from the computer [or a m-pci card slot adapter] that connects to a Desktop Graphics Card [the card is sitting in the adapter -either a desktop PCI x1 or x16 slot] connected by a mini-hdmi cable; all of which is powered by an external power supply unit)

    You can then display on a external screen by connecting it to the GPU's screen connectors. But you can get this extra graphics power to run on the internal screen of your Tablet PC that uses a "Intel IGP: Intel GMA 4500MHD, HD or x3150 (Pine Trail)" by using an one of the adapters, an external power supply, and a "Nvidia Fermi desktop card: GT4xx, GTS4xx, GTX4xx, GTX5xx (not tested with any other desktop adapters)". All you have to have connected to your Tablet PC is the the mini-hdmi cable, while the dock only needs to be plugged into a power source (so all that's needed is just power to the dock, and the cable between the dock and your computer)


    Parts I am using:
    Tablet PC with expresscard slot: my 2730p
    Desktop GPU: EVGA GTX460 1024MB vram
    Power Supply for gfx card: Corsair 430W PSU
    Docking solution: PE4L adapter

    I paid about $330 shipped -$50 in rebates, so about $280 for all the parts (you can certainly get a cheaper video card than I got)


    My Setup:
    Here is the nearly finished 'final form' of my DIY ViDock :cool:
    netting in at 4 Lbs 12 Oz (as it was in the last picture there); The enclosure itself is made of some sheet steel (I think stainless steel) that was folded into a box at 5.25" x 4.5" x 10.5" (at the long end) and 7" (at the short end); it has the pci section of a desktop case. It has a Corsair 430W PSU that I stripped to [mostly] the basics, and then spliced the remaining cabling to be only just long enough; and a full EVGA GTX460 1GB SuperClocked video card. The whole thing is currently quietly whirring next to me
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    To see more of my DIY ViDock setup, please check my Flickr account (Agent--9)

    Results:
    Before:
    3D Mark 06: 784 (score of just the 2730p)
    WEI: 3.9 for 'Graphics' and 3.3 for 'Gaming Graphics'

    After:
    Internal Display:
    3D Mark 06: 8,731 (Initial score 8,356)
    WEI: 3.9 for 'Graphics' and 5.1 for 'Gaming Graphics'

    computer's VGA out:
    3D Mark 06: 7,723
    WEI: 3.9 for 'Graphics' and 5.1 for 'Gaming Graphics'

    External display (off of gfx card):
    3D Mark 06: 10,320 (Initial score 9,775)
    WEI: 7.5 for 'Graphics' and 7.5 for 'Gaming Graphics'





    Resources:
    Notebook Review forum:
    -Using Optimus to display on internal laptop screen DIY ViDock Experiences - Page 121
    -The main DIY ViDock thread (with lots of info) DIY ViDock Experiences
    -Simple write up of what you need DIY ViDock Experiences - Page 302
    -more to come...
    There is a lot of information out there, be sure to read most of it, and ask questions before purchasing something thinking it will work


    I will update this with more info, and pictures when I have time
    Any questions or comments are welcome!

    I take no responsibility for anything you or anyone else does [or any damages that might occur, ect... ect...]. By reading any part of my post(s) you have agreed to that
     
  2. Agent 9

    Agent 9 Scribbler - Standard Member Senior Member

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    I got the dock parts in, and now have it just lying sprawled out on my couch while I'm testing the system, it runs quiet, and so far I haven't seen any issues to note.

    I will be doing some benchmarks, and testing some games to see how it does. Pictures of the dock to come later. more options to test, more settings in programs, and so forth will have to be tested by me


    I have tried borderlands before, and it was entirely unplayable; now I can play it at native 1280x800 and some options set to high and it has a pretty acceptable performance.



    If you have some program, game, or benchmark you would like to see me run; then let me know and I'll test it with the 2730p by itself, and with my DIY ViDock
     
  3. NamelessPlayer

    NamelessPlayer Scribbler - Standard Member Senior Member

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    Game benchmark suggestions, you say?

    -Crysis (I'm not expecting good Very High DX10 performance, because it takes Tri-SLI GTX 580s or something ludicrous like that to maintain 60 FPS on those settings. But if you can eke out solid framerates on Medium DX9 with this setup...)

    -Magicka (There is no reason at all that this sort of game should require a desktop-class GeForce 8800 or better to be playable. The gameplay would be great fun regardless of graphical level of detail, I'm certain. Alas, I'm still going to need a DIY ViDock to have a chance of running this game smoothly away from home.)

    There are countless other games I could mention, but those are the big two I can think of at the moment. (Unless the table I hang around at uni suddenly gets big into Left 4 Dead (2) or other co-op games...I want to spread the word about Magicka, but it's difficult to do that as things currently stand when StreamMyGame won't work and GameString Adrenalin won't go open beta for another month.)
     
  4. Manyak

    Manyak Scribbler - Standard Member

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    Wow I didn't know there was a whole thread on this, I was JUST thinking about doing this myself earlier today haha....

    I do have one question. Ok you know how these GPUs can only support two simultaneous outputs per card, right... Well does the internal LCD count as one when you're using optimus, or can you still connect two external monitors AND use the LCD all at once, all being powered by the fermi card?
     
  5. Agent 9

    Agent 9 Scribbler - Standard Member Senior Member

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    NBR is certainly has a lot on the subject of the eGPU, almost too much to handle really

    Namelessplayer: I tried Crysis, on the 2730p alone it was unplayable even at lowest settings (actually just navigating the menu when pausing the game was agonizing); but with the DIY ViDock displaying to the internal screen it handles all Medium settings pretty well (that was the 'recommended settings' by the game's auto detect. There were some drop outs, but nothing to major, though it wasn't 'smooth as butter'; I didn't check frame rates, because I don't know of a way to besides a program that will drop 10-30fps from just running it; I'll have to look into the Crysis benchmark program later on). If I use a external screen hooked up directly to the HDMI output of the GTX 460 (using the same Optimus driver still), when playing Crysis it recommends all high settings, and plays pretty well also (again, it isn't super smooth, but I think it is acceptable; if not to you, then you can lower a few settings. I was doing this from my couch to my TV, with my dock in between, and it was pretty cool to use). I'll also look into the other stuff you recommended...



    Manyak: it appears I cannot use the DVI ports on my video card (which is really a VGA port -with the adapter. Actually If I choose to 'make this my main display' for one of those DVI outputs, it will just display on the internal LCD, but not display it quite right -which leads me to think that these are in use by the Optimus driver); but I can use the mini HDMI port on my video card (with the mini HDMI to full HDMI adapter, so it an hook up to my TV that uses regular HDMI) -well this is how it is when running with 'Optimus' (I think with using the driver that comes on the disc you get, you are able to use all monitor ports on the videocard, but your internal display, and external displays won't be 'accelerated')

    That said, with the Optimus drivers I can 'acclerate' my internal screen, as well as the vga out on my 2730p (both to about the same); but the HDMI out on the video card is running at max potential; if that makes any sense (Basically because of the Optimus drivers, the external screen powered by the external gfx card is running better than if it were using the standard drivers, and better than the Internal screen with Optimus. It is actually better than my desktop was getting for a 3Dmark06 score, but the same WEI on gfx, my desktop actually loses to my 2730p on all counts except disc [and formerly graphics]... sad I know... for my desktop, lol)

    The reason both the external display, and the internal display on the notebook itself is 'accelerated' is because the external GPU does most of the processing work, and sends the data to the GMA 4500 MHD to use and then display how it sees fit (something like that, as the GTX 460 external card does not take over entirely); and the reason the Optimus driver 'accelerates' the external display coming right off the GTX 460 is because it is increasing the bandwidth between the computer and the video card with some fancy algorithms and drivers (nobody really knows, its Nvidia's big secret :eek: )

    Here is the WEI for my TV hooked up to the GTX 460 through the HDMI out on the GTX 460 (using Optimus drivers):
    [​IMG]
    While this is the WEI for either the internal LCD, or the vga out on my 2730p, with the 'assistance of' the GTX 460 (using Optimus drivers):
    [​IMG]



    So a easy way of seeing it is this (assuming you are using a 1x connection ie: only 1 cable running between your computer and the dock, such as only using the expresscard adapter; as this is about all a Tablet PC would be capable of):
    Meh: just your computer alone, as is with no additions (perhaps a little bit of overclocking for the CPU to help pick up the slack), but it sucks!!
    Good: Your laptop hooked up to a external monitor with a DIY ViDock
    Better: your laptop hooked up to a DIY ViDock using one of the aforementioned Fermi cards, running a Optimus drivers (Overclocking your CPU helps here, because at this point, the CPU will probably start dragging you down)
    Best: A external screen hooked up to a DIY ViDock with a aforementioned Fermi card, running a Optimus driver (as good as a decent desktop setup you can get while using a Tablet PC and a external screen; and this is where your processor will really start being a bottle neck -so overclock that thing)

    The great thing is that a DIY ViDock can do all of that without needing any hardware or software changes; so you only need to plug it in to different devices, and change which is the default desktop; which means you can go from: 'not playable' to 'it plays well' to 'sweet jebus, this is a Laptop?!?!' all from one device.


    And you are supposed to be able to overclock the PCI lane (the expresscard slot in my case) up to 25% more, and that would yield ~25% more bandwidth which giver better performance still. I'm going to have to read up on how to do this, and then see what it yields

    so, yea... lots and lots of information
     
  6. Manyak

    Manyak Scribbler - Standard Member

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    Interesting. So the Optimus drivers basically capture the output that is supposed to go to the DVI ports and instead puts that output in the DMA space of the IGP so that the IGP displays it instead. That's pretty impressive thinking on their part lol.

    Switchable graphics on laptops used to require complex multiplexers to switch the circuitry itself between the two chips. This way isn't as power efficient because it obviously needs to use the IGP somewhat (although obviously very minimally), but it's definitely elegant.

    Then again, if you've got it on your desk with a huge GPU plugged into it I don't think you care much about battery life :p
     
  7. NamelessPlayer

    NamelessPlayer Scribbler - Standard Member Senior Member

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    All right, test number two: Is it hot-pluggable?

    Obviously, I'd only use the DIY ViDock if I was sitting down somewhere with two AC outlets readily available. I'd rather not have to reboot or anything to switch GPUs. It should be a matter of plug-and-play.
     
  8. Agent 9

    Agent 9 Scribbler - Standard Member Senior Member

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    kind of... you have to put the computer to sleep and then plug the expresscard adapter attached to a already powered on dock, then wake the computer from sleep and it will be working in ~1 second (the screen will flash black, and then re-draw all things on screen); to detach it you have to use the 'safely remove hardware' feature in Windows, put the computer to sleep, and then detach it (not sure if you have to sleep the system when removing the dock or not). Even with my god-awfully slow hdd, sleeping/ waking my 2730p barely takes a few seconds, so it isn't a big deal.



    I am eventually going to build a housing for it all, and I plan on making it so I can put one of my 2730p's power adapters into it (just the block part and the cable that connects to the computer); That way I have one device with 1 cord for power in, and the output for laptop power, and connector to the video card (This is only really possible with a longer cable that connects between the dock and computer, like the 5ft one I got)

    It isn't a perfect system, but IMO it does a pretty darn good job considering you have one computer that is both a ultra portable with great efficiency, and a very formidable powerhouse with the help of the DIY ViDock
     
  9. purplepeopledesign

    purplepeopledesign Scribbler - Standard Member

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    Do you need the ATX power supply or is it possible to run a second laptop brick:

    If the latter is possible, then one could tape the two bricks together and run a single cord from them into the wall. It could be quite portable then as the largest physical thing would be the video card, which wouldn't even need to be that powerful to run OpenGL 2.0 for CAD. With a passively cooled card, one could save even more power.... maybe even run them all from a single more powerful brick.

    :)ensen.
     
  10. Agent 9

    Agent 9 Scribbler - Standard Member Senior Member

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    purplepeopledesign: with the smaller video cards that wouldn't normally need any extra power connectors, you can simply use a 12C or 15-20V laptop power supply (plugged into the adapter the card sits on), but none of those cards would be capable of using the 'Optimus' setup (where the video card is powering the internal screen); so you would need a external screen.
    Actually, if you provise for the max draw of your computer, and the card, then buy a large power brick and splice in another plug end, then you only need to use one power brick.



    Now, there have been a few people using a full GTX 460 card (using Optimus to display internally) with a Xbox360 power brick; apparently it is about the right amperage on the +12V line (though it requires you do some cable splicing to get power going where you need it; nothing too difficult if you can use a soldering iron); and the cards seem to run at full performance like this, so it isn't gimping your system.

    The reasons many people go with the 460 cards is because it gives a lot of performance, can do Optimus with no sweat, while being really efficient, cool running, and quiet. If you are planning on a card that is more along the lines of a 570 then you will probably need a very large power supply, and a large/ complex system to keep the whole thing cool, and it won't get you much of any more performance in a DIY ViDock.
     
  11. lovelaptops

    lovelaptops My friends call me Jeff Senior Member

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    Well, I for one would like to say that this is the most impressive piece of work and, perhaps more valuable for the rest of us, the most impressively simple, straightforward set of directions for us to get going with a DIY Vidock. They are becoming increasingly popular, but most believe (and what has been written previously supports the belief) that it is just too complex for any but the most technically savvy to achieve.

    By the way, I have read discussions on several forums where people swear there is no way to pump the discrete gpu output back to the screen of the "starting" computer. Curious Agent 9, how does 8,000+ 3DMark graphics look on the BOE Hydis of the 2730?

    Finally, I would like to mention that not only are hobbyists with nothing but IGPs on their laptops looking more and more towards this, but computer companies are doing it too, as a means of making laptops that are very thin and light (ie, no room for a major cooling system) and selling their own separate box to do discrete graphic, gaming etc. While the leaks are still sketchy, there is pretty much confirmation that the next Sony Z ultra-lux ultraportable is going to have a form factor more like and MBA, keep it's superior screen and other features, but off load the discrete gpu, which is presently an underclocked GT 330M due to cooling limitations of the tiny case, onto a separate box. This is a fairly long thread of speculation about the new Z, but much of it surround the now-certainty that Sony will be taking this approach with its flagship notebook: New Sony Vaio Z speculation/news thread.

    Agent 9, +1 rep from me (paltry accolade) and you really set the pace here. I personally think you should make a business of consulting to people to set this up. You can do it all by phone and real time photos/videos, and if you charge a reasonable fee for your time advising for everything from what equipment to acquire and how to hook it up, you would be providing a fabulous service that, to my knowledge, no one provides, and you would help supplement your starving-student finances :)

    Great work!
     
  12. Agent 9

    Agent 9 Scribbler - Standard Member Senior Member

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    Thanks lovelaptops!
    Having this amount of power on my 2730p is just mind boggling, I never would have guessed it would e so easy to do, or how efficient it all is; and it really does look great on this gorgeous AFFS+ screen :)



    OK, so it is really time for a big update (this is after lots more testing, and a bit more reading):
    First off Nvidia released a new driver, and it is even better than before (version 270.51) it seems to handle the handicap of running on a x1 1.0 Optimus link considerably better than before (the video card is built for a x16 2.0 vidoeocard slot on a desktop motherboard)... a bit of info I stumbled across is that if you are using a Nvidia Optimus capable driver past version 258.96 with one of the cards capable of Optimus, you will not be able to use a DVI to VGA converter on display out (I think a DVI connection would be fine, though I do not have one to test -so that is the reason VGA out was not working for me earlier, not because of VGA being cloned back to the internal screen). Scores for 3d Mark 06 jumped up to ~8810 internal, and ~10000 for external (I need to re-run and post it)... best part about the new driver is there is no Optimus Overlay text anywhere!!

    After playing with a few different games so far, I can say that some games will handle the DIY ViDock extremely well (Far Cry 2 is just beautiful at max all settings on either my 2730p's screen, or a external 50" 1920x1080 screen at native res!), while others will have some issues with it (namely Crysis seems to not like playing super smoothly, it gets 'cuts' across the screen where part of the screen is rendering right, but above or below the cut the game is lagging behind rendering)
    So here is the huge news: While most games will recommend about medium settings; nearly every game will play at highest all settings [including all the fancy little things like AA, DOF, filtering, ect...] with dropping at most a handful of fps (if any at all)!! though it will stress the CPU/ GPU a little more (even still all, temps are very reasonable -average ~50-60C and only the Intel GPU, GTX 460, and processor barely reaching 65C after gaming for a while! Playing Combat Arms on the 2730p by itself was reaching 70 & 80C for processor and Intel GPU respectively, that being before I had a DIY ViDock)... I will be testing Metro 2033 later this weekend, I am curious as to how it will handle

    So Far Cry 2 (and others) at max all settings at native resolution is smooth playing, and relatively cool running (don't know how to check frame rates accurately, any ideas?) on a few generations old tech that was never intended for gaming :D


    I also built a 'test housing' for my DIY ViDock out of cardboard (you can see a picture of it in the first post) currently it has the entire power supply in it [cables and all], but I am planning on taking the psu apart and only keeping the wires I need so I can cut the size and weight down significantly; but for the time being it is working fine, and it sorta 'portable'
     
  13. purplepeopledesign

    purplepeopledesign Scribbler - Standard Member

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    Is there an display setting for the very uncommon 1400x1050 resolution?

    :)ensen.
     
  14. Agent 9

    Agent 9 Scribbler - Standard Member Senior Member

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    I don't quite know what you mean; are you talking about a internal or external screen? If it is external I think it would work fine as the gfx card is meant to power external screens (yes, 1400x1050 is one of the options; it'll work given it is a DVI or HDMI screen, VGA is fine if you used a non-optimus driver at that time); if you mean to power a internal 1400x1050 screen, well the notebook has to have a GMA x3100, GMA 4500, or GMA HD for it to work with Optimus (otherwise it is a no-go)

    But it also depends on the game (or program) and if it supports that resolution itself; but, yes the card should be capable of it (mine is anyways)... the best card you can get is a GTX 460 -great performance, can be powered by a decent psu, runs cool and quiet, and can be gotten cheap (any of the variants should be fine as long as it is a full 460 card); anything above a 460 won't see much of a performance boost when used in a DIY ViDock, and they will run hotter, louder, and need a much larger psu (if not 2!)


    And be sure the computer that would be using it has either a Expresscard slot (preferred), or a m-pci card slot that you can use (this is cumbersome because it requires the bottom be open, and that you remove a m-pci card you have -usually wi-fi); and hopefully a decently strong processor (I have my C2D SL9400 OC'd a bit, and it helps quite a bit)
     
  15. purplepeopledesign

    purplepeopledesign Scribbler - Standard Member

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    Ah... so not possible with my older TPC.

    :)ensen.
     
  16. warakawa

    warakawa Pen Pal - Newbie

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    I don't understand, I thought you have to connect the external gpu to your laptop through the expresscard slot, how come you're doing it through mini hdmi?

    confused..
     
  17. Agent 9

    Agent 9 Scribbler - Standard Member Senior Member

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    It goes computer's Expresscard slot (or m-pci slot -this is a option if you don't want to use, or don't have a Expresscard slot) ==> mini HDMI cable (this is the connector they decided to use because it is relatively standard, can carry a good amount of data, and is the right size) ==> gfx card connector ==> desktop gfx card
     
  18. warakawa

    warakawa Pen Pal - Newbie

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    I thought the HDMI port is only for information out not back in. Anyways I only have the expresscard slot on my x200 tablet, do you think I should use pe4L or pe4H? and also does the psu have be consair cx430?
     
  19. Agent 9

    Agent 9 Scribbler - Standard Member Senior Member

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    well, I'm not quite sure how they have it wired up, but it works (two single channels, or one two way channel, or something else)


    I got the Pe4L as it was far cheaper (~$55 vs ~$85 either of them +$10 shipping, and I got the 5ft long cable as well which was $15, otherwise you get a dinky cable that is less than 1ft -though you can buy a longer cable separately), and since I planned on using Optimus drivers with a card capable of using it so that was my only logical option (the pe4L is only capable of 1 connection, while the pe4H is capable of 4; but Optimus will only work with a single connection on either adapter -so either will work the same with Optimus, its just that one will be more expensive, and hold the card a little better)

    As for the power supply, pick one out after you decide on a card, but don't spend too much money on one (you have to be sure the PSU has enough Amperage on the +12 rail, anything that is above the required Amperage of the card is fine -even just 1A above should be fine); I got the corsair one because it was cheap at the time, and it met the requirements for the card


    For the card, any video card will work if you are only planning on using a external monitor; but if you want to get the best performance on a external screen, or have the card 'power' your internal screen, then you have to get a Nvidia GT/GTS/GTX 4xx or 5xx card (a 460 card is preferred because of its great amount of power, in its very cool running efficient form, that is also pretty quiet, and lower +12 rail requirements; a 5xx card will generally run much hotter, and louder, while needing a very large power supply)
    - GTX 4x0 (I recommend this because it will give you significantly more performance, and it will be 'future proofed' should you later on decide to get a Sandy Bridge equipped computer -which will be able to use a DIY ViDock much better with Optimus) Newegg.com - Desktop Graphics / Video Cards, GeForce GTX 400 series,Nvidia 4
    - GTS 4x0 Newegg.com - Desktop Graphics / Video Cards, GeForce GTS 400 series,Nvidia 4
    - GT 4x0 Newegg.com - Desktop Graphics / Video Cards, GeForce G/GT series,Nvidia 4



    Also, one thing to be aware of is that the DIY ViDock requires that you 'work with it' sometimes (its not quire 'buy and go' but it is close)
    Be sure to drop by the main DIY ViDock thread on NBR DIY ViDock Experiences Its the super large repository of all info on the DIY ViDock
     
  20. danenick1212

    danenick1212 Pen Pal - Newbie

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    Agent 9, thanks for the info!!! I have been researching and planning on doing this for some time now. My x200t is pretty identical specwise to your 2730p, and I will be using the same videocard so i can expect to get similar results to you. Now I can get rid of my Elitebook 8730w and use the x200t for quasi-mobile gaming. I knew that there was a workaround to the nVidia overlay for a while, but I'm pretty happy that they removed it in the newest driver revision.

    So, you have no issues with ghosting or anything on the internal LCD? I don't have the Hydis screen, I have the 285-nit superbright LCD. I will have to see if there is any ghosting issues once I try to game on the internal LCD.

    Now I have to work out how I want to power everything. The xbox360 power supply mod looks great, but i might just opt for a decent 150-200 watt laptop power brick.

    Bummer, though...I might need to upgrade to a 256gb SSD. My 128gb is going to feel the heat from my 100gb Steam folder!!!!!

    Thanks, again Agent 9!!!
     
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