Connected Standby battery drain issue

Discussion in 'Dell' started by next_milenium, Jan 7, 2014.

  1. rwerksman

    rwerksman Scribbler - Standard Member

    Messages:
    172
    Likes Received:
    31
    Trophy Points:
    41
    See, I would argue the point. It *is* a tablet, but it runs full computer software. When the average, non-technical user looks at it they immediately compare it with an iPad simply because of it's form factor. To really succeed, it has to function well as a tablet running a heavier operating system. That is *the* selling point of the device, in my opinion. As it sits, it only half succeeds.

    FWIW, I have one attorney now using a Venue 11 - a Bay Trail model actually. He likes the form factor, desktop dock (despite only running at 100 mb/s), and keyboard with the battery built in. He has however mentioned a few times now that the battery life is not very good, even with both batteries charged. My guess is that he is running into CS issues as well. I get to dive deeper on his machine tomorrow. His overall sentiment pretty much matches mine - fantastic in concept but not ready for prime time.

    Looking back at how much customization and troubleshooting I've done on the two Venue 11's that I have, I'm quite disappointed. (CS being one of the main culprits) Unfortunately, or perhaps fortunately, the iPads and iPhones have really set the bar high as far as end user self service. For the most part, they just work. Legacy PCs have been refined enough that I can bend them to my will easily, so they just work too...


    In any case, what did you do to disable CS on your end? mod the CS regkey from 1 to 0 as has been reported elsewhere?
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2014
  2. Mikerman

    Mikerman Scribbler - Standard Member Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,293
    Likes Received:
    125
    Trophy Points:
    81
    Interestingly, I had my DV8P with me yesterday at an all-day (12-hours including travel) meeting, not connected to ac power. I only used the tablet once, in the middle of the day. When I got home, I was surprised to see that the battery charge only was down 5%. But I assume the main reason was, I wasn't connected to a network during the day.
     
  3. jyan_osu

    jyan_osu Scribbler - Standard Member

    Messages:
    358
    Likes Received:
    92
    Trophy Points:
    41
    See I think of it as a computer in a different form factor. Not a tablet in any sense of what Android tablets and iOS tablets do. In the end, there's a ton of code to try and get Windows 8.1 to work on all platforms and then to try and run full blown desktop programs that aren't made to handle connected standby? I think it's asking a lot.

    Every program in iOS or Android is made to work in a certain way as to conform to how those operating systems handle various power states. yes you can make a program to ignore it (wake locks) but for the most part, they are built from the ground up to conform to certain standards set by an operating system made for mobile usage in terms of power saving and performance.

    I think if you want that type of experience, you go with Windows 8 RT tablets where the OS is designed for ARM architecture that are low power CPUs for mobile products and for mobile operations. I have a Surface RT and it acts like an Android or iOS tablet. I don't expect my Venue 11 Pro to do that and to me I'd rather have it completely in hibernation mode after an hour or two. I have that set this way and I lose 0 power and it's but a few seconds to boot up. I view the Venue 11 Pro as a very highly portable desktop computer.

    Between my Asus Transformer(s), Surface RT, HP Touchpad, and Venue 11 Pro I have different expectations on what their capabilities are. Just like how Chromebooks and Macbooks and UltraPcs are all different experiences in similar form factor. But that's just my point of view :)
     
  4. rwerksman

    rwerksman Scribbler - Standard Member

    Messages:
    172
    Likes Received:
    31
    Trophy Points:
    41
    This is my point - you (and I) are not the target market. The masses are. If they see tablet, and read like it being a tablet plus, then it functions like a crappy laptop when it comes to power management, the game is lost.

    Frankly, can we all just agree the power management should just work? Right now, it doesn't work per the Microsoft spec, which means it just doesn't work.
     
  5. jyan_osu

    jyan_osu Scribbler - Standard Member

    Messages:
    358
    Likes Received:
    92
    Trophy Points:
    41
    Well, the power management hasn't worked on any of my desktops either so I don't expect it to work on a tablet :) I have 5 computers in my house.. 3 are setup as HTPCs and all have different components. None of them have sleep/standby working right or reliable and these are clean installs of just the OS. Having worked at many large companies, I've yet to see one work well.

    I did have ONE.. one computer that was reliable with all sleep modes/ hibernation/ turning on with the remote ..etc.

    I think Microsoft has a ways to go to get it right in terms of power management.and I think it works on the RT systems fine because it doesn't cater to legacy and full Windows programs. I don't know how they could get it working right for business tablets. As a developer myself I'm just thinking off the top of my head what I would look into and it already hurts :)
     
  6. daver

    daver Scribbler - Standard Member Senior Member

    Messages:
    759
    Likes Received:
    72
    Trophy Points:
    41
    No, I get what you're saying and it makes sense that way, but the problem is that the lines between laptop and tablet no longer exist. The line distinguishing them for average users is gone, but the divide between hardware is still very much there. That's where the problem lies. The Dell Venue 11 7130 feels a lot like the Adamo they had years ago. You can feel that they're really trying to do something great with it. It's just that the hardware they're using isn't there yet.

    I see this specifically as an ultrabook without a keyboard. A colleague of mine sees it as an iPad with a keyboard dock. We're both developers and project managers, yet have different views about what the Dell Venue's primary "device type" is. I think what allows me to consider this just like any other tablet PC is because I've had other tablet PCs when they were nothing more than laptops+styli. That might have just trained me to think this way.

    That, and also tweak the registry further to allow the ability to disable Connected Standby as one of the power states. I've forgotten specifically what the options were, but you know where you can go in the Power Options to disable Fast Startup? Below Fast Startup I believe there's a list of power states you can enable/disable. Connected Standby is one of the options for me. Do note that I have a fresh install of Windows 8.1 Professional (retail, not OEM) so obviously YMMV. I posted in another thread (maybe this one too) the steps I took to disable Connected Standby.

    Care to point out a mobile computer that did actually work per Microsoft's spec? [/sarcasm]
    Seriously, Connected Standby is even a problem on their own Surface Pro and Surface Pro 2 units. I believe the same issue happens to a lesser extent on their WinRT variants. I would imagine that it would be the same with the new Pro 3 and whatever little brother variant comes out along side it.
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2014
  7. rwerksman

    rwerksman Scribbler - Standard Member

    Messages:
    172
    Likes Received:
    31
    Trophy Points:
    41
    I get where you're coming from. Let me just ask you this - did you buy one because it was a laptop without a keyboard, or because it was iPad like with so much more?

    I dont have one, but that's irrelevant. The spec is the spec is the spec. One thing I will point out is that the iPad and the iPhone met the spec. That's one of the many reasons they are so successful. Issues (such as this CS issue) don't exactly help Venue sales.


    We should probably get back to talking about CS though, considering that's what the thread is about...
     
  8. daver

    daver Scribbler - Standard Member Senior Member

    Messages:
    759
    Likes Received:
    72
    Trophy Points:
    41
    Laptop without a keyboard. It sounds like you bought it for a tablet that can do more than just tablet-y things. Myself, I wanted something more portable than an ultrabook.

    Actually, it is relevant.

    Apple has a spec and they stick to it, and it's really easy for them to stick to it. They have, what, 4 total network cards/chips in all of their iPads, and maybe 5-6 for the iPhones? Also, one driver directly assigned to each chip/card. It's impossible to really screw that up when you have no alternatives for the hardware. You can't just go out and buy an alternative network card and drop it into an iPad.

    Connected Standby requires that the hardware manufacturers come up with a driver that follows the required spec. The hardware I have no doubts operates exactly to spec... the drivers on the other hand... There's nothing stopping us from buying an Intel 7260AC, 6250 WiMAX, or even an old Intel 2200BG card and installing it into our tablets here. CS won't work with either the 6250 or the 2200BG, because they don't follow the driver spec. But here's the stupid thing: one could actually write a driver that does follow the CS specs and force the tablet to enter CS with hardware that doesn't really support it. So CS is going to fail catastrophically. The problem that we face with OEM hardware is that there's an infinite combination of hardware and software, and it's difficult for manufacturers to come up with a solution that will work perfectly in all combinations. They aim for the best they can do, which is about as lofty a goal as meeting things half way. If we had perfect drivers, we might not have this CS problem (assuming nothing else in the system is at fault).

    A perfect example of how there are so many different combinations of OEM hardware: the Dell Venue 11 Pro. That's right. One person here will have the 5130 with the Bay Trail and 2GB of RAM and Dell 15xx wifi carrd. Then there's the 7130 with the Core i3/i5, some with the Dell 15xx and some with the Intel 7260. Then there's the 7139 which is basically the Core i5 7130 with TPU. There was previously rumours of a 5130+ that had Bay Trail and 4GB of RAM. Under a single title "Dell Venue 11 Pro" there's already 3 primary variations of hardware, possibly a fourth, and even within each one there's more variation in the hardware specs. The only variation in Apple's specs is storage space, and that's nothing that drivers have anything to do with.

    Android suffers from similar problems as our CS problems, with kernel and system wakelocks. Sometimes an app or service will hog too much of something (CPU, background data sync, etc) that it keeps the phone awake despite having the screen off. So the problem of poor standby isn't unique to Microsoft tablets.

    Yeah... but there's been no working solution to this problem, and discussing the problems about CS helps us kill time while we wait for a better driver or workaround from Dell or MS :)
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2014
  9. rwerksman

    rwerksman Scribbler - Standard Member

    Messages:
    172
    Likes Received:
    31
    Trophy Points:
    41
    I disagree - from a consumer perspective, it's completely irrelevant. They want a television that turns on and shows moving pictures, a watch that tells time, a toaster that toasts, and yes, a tablet that functions correctly. By and large consumers doesn't care about variations in hardware or driver issues or any of that shenanaganery -- it just needs to work. Here, when it comes to connected standby, these tablets do not.

    I think we all know it's complicated to make these things. Frankly, so is making sausage. Do we excuse the sausage makers when it tastes terribad or when it makes you sick? Do we blame the folks who raise the pigs? Negatory! :D We should not do that here with Dell. It looks like we're not alone:

    Dell Venue 11 Pro Battery Drain Issue - Windows Mobile Products - Mobile Devices - Dell Community

    True dat. :(
     
  10. daver

    daver Scribbler - Standard Member Senior Member

    Messages:
    759
    Likes Received:
    72
    Trophy Points:
    41
Loading...
Similar Threads - Connected Standby battery
  1. Kumabjorn
    Replies:
    4
    Views:
    504

Share This Page