Cheap Chinese tablet with stylus start appearing in mass, Wacom AES?

Discussion in 'Hardware' started by crazycat, May 4, 2016.

  1. crazycat

    crazycat Scribbler - Standard Member

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    Back then, there was only Cube that made few tablet with active stylus. But it seem after the Apple pencil thing, Teclast also jump in as well.Here are some informative pages that actually mentioned the stylus:

    Teclast pro X2
    http://www.xiaomitoday.com/teclast-pro-x2and-windows-10/

    Teclast pro X16
    http://techtablets.com/2015/10/teclast-release-five-images-of-new-11-6-atom-x7-z8700-tablet/

    Cube iwork 10 flagship
    http://www.cube-tablet.com/cube-iwork-10-flagship-win-10-android-5-1-4gb-64gb.html

    The one I investigated more closely is the Cube iwork 10 Flagship. Back then, when asked about stylus of this model,Gearbest directed to a passive stylus called CEP02, even thought it's advertised to have active pen with pressure sensitive. After looking more closely, I found a link to an active stylus also called CEP02, this seem to be the real deal.

    Here are some videos of stylus test of the Cube iwork 10 flagship. They are home made video by reseller from my country, so I believe the result can be trusted.



    As we can see, the pen has battery and two button. The tracking looks pretty good, there were no tail, and there is clearly pressure sensitive. So far it looked pretty similar to Wacom AES, but it has their own branding. I also looked at the Teclast pen though there wasn't any pen review yet. The appearance of the pen look pretty similar to the Cube Pen though.Their pens could be rebranded Wacom AES, or N-trig (doubt it because MS own the tech) or maybe Chinese OEM stole the AES tech to put in their pen.

    The Cube iwork 10 flagship have Cherry Trail, 4GB RAM, FHD, 10.6 inch screen and is currently $188 on Gearbest.If the pen is genuine AES Wacom pen, that would seal the deal.

    I might try asking the reseller to try installing Feel driver on it, but that would be awkward because I'm not planning to buy another penabled tablet anytime soon.
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2016
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  2. WillAdams

    WillAdams Scribbler - Standard Member Senior Member

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    The thing is, even if it's licensed Wacom AES, there are differing implementations of it --- the Bamboo stylus for 2-in-1 Convertibles doesn't work on my Toshiba Encore 2 Write 10.
     
  3. cutterline

    cutterline Scribbler - Standard Member

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    LOL, no. Excuse me.

    It's not possible of them for using wacom AES.
    First, budget tablet cut cost in every aspect, cheapest wacom aes so far would be the encore 2 write (CMIIW) so I really doubt the price is cheaper than wacom emr.
    Second, AES implementation is not as stable as EMR, as they are still in transition and also that unifying pen thingy, I doubt they have the adequate skill (and R&D money) to implement that.

    Last, the link you posted and telcast x2 pro 's pen spec sheet (basically the same pen with different branding) indicate only 256 pressure level. 256.... where did I remember this number? Yesteryear N-trig used that whilst AES was already flaunting thousands of pressure level since its birth. I forgot which one was the first commercial AES but even Encore 2 Write with 1280x800 solution from 2015 already got 2048 pressure level.

    Some of the possible answer are
    1. A Chinese company made this cheap solution researched by themselves.
    2. Almost same as 1 but they "took" n-trig's old tech and implement this
    3. MS gave away its old tech for "free" as they have moved to 1024 pressure level.

    2/3 is not proven as I have never seen a demo/review using pen on photoshop and stuffs (which support n-trig) so I'll go with 1.
     
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  4. crazycat

    crazycat Scribbler - Standard Member

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    Asked the reseller and he confirmed that it wasn't Wacom but a Goodix digitizer. After digging around a bit I found this page describe the spec, which is limited to 10.1 inch and 256 level pressure, which seem to fit in with the cube 10 (it's 10.1 not 10.6, I was wrong before)

    Technical wise,I think Wacom AES should become cheaper than EMR eventually. EMR involved getting an extra digitizer board from Wacom, but AES just ride on the touch screen board so price should depend on the quality of the touch screen+the Wacom license. Wacom also plan to standardize the pen design so touch screen maker could apply the digitizer standard themselves instead of having to buy the board from Wacom like EMR,so the license fee should become lower.

    Also Goodix is one of the manufacturer planning to apply the Pen Standard according to the article, so I won't easity dismiss them in future Chiness tablet. If it meet the pen standard by Wacom and Microsoft, I would trust it.
     
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  5. cutterline

    cutterline Scribbler - Standard Member

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    Just to end the discussion and giving more info about Goodix.

    Someone actually posted this today in other thread about Wacom next gen active pen, tilt support, 4096 pressure level, and blablabla...

    Goodix is actually listed as one of the company with compatible touch controller which is probably the reason why the pen performance on Onenote was pretty decent, according to the video OP posted.
    I reckon they were riding on n-trig API or some sort which actually make it interesting. It is actually plausible to have PS (or other apps) support but me myself still doubt it until there is a video review or proof because well as we know it, this is a new kid on the block.

    About AES-EMR topic. I do agree it will eventually become cheaper than EMR but not today and not tomorrow, I doubt they can reach BEP just after a year in the market (AES was announced in 2015) and I doubt within the next 2-3 years. Why?
    First, judging from the products... if no big Chinese brands were capable of adopting the tech, it means either Wacom is pretty much bargaining EMR or the market is actually surplus of it, therefore it is cheap.

    Also, by jugding from the thread link I posted above, we can see the pen tech is consolidating and evolving after 2 major events by Apple and MS. Wacom, as a leading tech, is forced to take action now, pumping money to R&D, make itself shine among the pile or to be overthrown in couple of years.
     
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  6. alisaad619

    alisaad619 Scribbler - Standard Member

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    I think future Goodix panels will use Microsoft pen program protocol, the current ones don't, devices that support Microsoft pen program will be certified and advertised as such.

    I think Q4 2016 is the expected time for devices and pens that support Microsoft pen program to show up, and a lot of them will be cheap Chinese tablets since Microsoft got a deal with almost every touch panels manufacturer
     
  7. okieiam

    okieiam Scribbler - Standard Member

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    This guy is unreliable, he sells the machines as an extra business in his bed room during out of office hours. I by accident live in the same street as him. His is not quite readily to be contacted but prefer phone deal. He says the pen is not included and he has to borrow from serviced clientI. So the time slot to trail the pen is less than 20 minutes. He try to convince me to buy the tablet without a pen which is only 50$ order. I fact I had never seen the pen yet. The whole story is FAKE , IMO
    thought the video are fake.
     
  8. okieiam

    okieiam Scribbler - Standard Member

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    Order my Cube Mix Plus today from that guy, waiting for it to come
     
  9. crazycat

    crazycat Scribbler - Standard Member

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    Okay, I forgot to report my review on the goodix digitizer. In my attempt to find a cheap 10" with pen to bring outside without worrying about accident, I had bought the Cube iwork 10 flagship from that guy (and returned it almost immediately for a Jumper Ezpad 5SE with Wacom EMR) I wouldn't blame him though, he did say it's not as good as Wacom, he just might not know how much worse because he doesn't use pen extensively and some of the defect happen after prolonged use.

    Short review: It's junk,
    avoid it if pen input mean something to you.

    Long review:

    The first reason to stay away from goodix is the questionable quality control. I had seen some video review with somewhat positive result, like note taking video on Chuwi Hi 12. However the digitizer application is not the same between device (most likely untested), and the one I got is probably a worse one.

    When it work:
    Here is the jitter test in paint (no stabilization): The top one is slow and the below one is fast, there is jitter in both cases.
    [​IMG]
    Here is a drawing test in CSP.
    [​IMG]

    -I had to pull stabilization to 5 bar just for it to be usable. Even then the strokes still get crooked and take a loooot more undo than the usual EMR.
    -The imprecision is awful. With EMR, it's possible to sketch the whole thing zoomed out and drawing small detail and small circle. With this digitizer, you have to zoom up to 300% to draw somewhat acceptable line, connecting line is impossible even when zoomed in, the cursor 'wiggle' when you press the pen tip in one place. Small parallel lines such as hatching or small circle is impossible.
    -IAF is awfully high. I had to press hard just to get the cursor to appear on the screen. Palm rejection is therefore almost nonexistent. There is no hover cursor for this digitizer.
    -Interestingly, android detect the digitizer and pressure work in app like medibang paint:

    [​IMG]

    When it doesn't work:

    -When it work, it ruin your lines. When it doesn't, it mutilate your line into electrical wave. Literally.

    [​IMG]
    ^ These are diagonal lines. I did not draw those 'wave' intentionally. Even Clip Studio Paint can't salvage this.

    This happen from time to time, about once every 20 minutes, mostly on the left side where it heat up the most and almost always when charger is plugged in. That's why there is much different result in online review, as they mostly just writes a few words or draw a few lines and call it done. I believe the questionable QC is to be blamed for this.

    Because it's an AES digitizer, the fault is most likely in the touch panel and chinese tablet is notorious for its bad touch panel. With EMR we don't have to worry because the pen panel is directly sourced from Wacom. So if you consider Chinese tablet, your best bet would be Wacom ones like the Cube Mix Plus or Jumper EZpad 5SE. I'm happy with my Jumper EZpad 5SE replacement and glad I managed to get rid of the abomination that is Goodix.
     
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  10. okieiam

    okieiam Scribbler - Standard Member

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    Good review thanks. My decision seem to correct to stay away from Techlast X5Pro although it has a bigger screen 12.3 inch.
    Wacom get the trust, I will order additional CTL490 with wireless kit from a Wacom distributor tomorrow
     

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