Calligraphers, hand writers , mathematicians your ideal pen & tablet characteristics?

Discussion in 'Professions' started by siddhartth, Oct 4, 2016.

  1. siddhartth

    siddhartth Scribbler - Standard Member

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    This question is specifically directed to people who have to handwrite or draw letters of the alphabet for a living. It's different from graphic art. Legibility of handwriting, and control of the movement is of utmost importance.

    Students and teachers of mathematics, practitioners of the art of calligraphy will understand the exacting criterias of
    • requisite friction and
    • minimal IAF that prolonged handwriting needs.
    • finer tips that don't obstruct the view
    There are students of other subjects also who have to capture what the professor is speaking at a firehose speed. Private Coaching classes for competetive exams(A.K.A education Mafia) are a good example of this.

    In short this thread is supposed to be a knowledge and news resource for people who need to engage in "lettering" for
    • a living as a profession
    • or in order to find a living that is students who attend lecture based classes of Maths, natural science, calligraphy or medicine.

    So please mention your
    • nation,
    • your handwriting script -japanese, arabic, roman, cyryllic, devnagri, chinese, korean
    • And your subject or profession calligraphy, maths, medicine.
    • The tablet you are using or want to use.
    • Are you satisfied with it? Yes or no with reasons.
    • the software - educational/aritistic
    • Would you recommend your tablet to others in your profession?
    To jump start it i would like to invite -
    @surfaceproartist
    @WillAdams @Marty
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2016
  2. WillAdams

    WillAdams Scribbler - Standard Member

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    • U.S.
    • Latin (though I took a year of Korean w/ the Air Force)
    • graphic design, some programming, some drafting and CNC work, some book production, esp. math texts and programming
    • Currently using a Toshiba Encore 2 Write 10, often tempted to go back to my Fujitsu Stylistic ST4121 (I do haul it out when using my CNC machine on the back deck)
    • The tablet I want to use doesn't exist (EMR stylus, transflective display 12" display, modern processor, OS and battery life, but w/ the handwriting interface from Windows XP/7, and the nifty pen-centric notebook oriented object-orientation of Go Corp.'s PenPoint)
    • Macromedia Freehand, Autodesk Sketchbook (an old desktop version), sometimes working in TeX I'll use Infty Editor ( http://www.inftyproject.org/en/software.html ), OneNote and TruNote for note-taking --- really miss FutureWave SmartSketch and may re-install it yet, or buy a copy of Flash.
    • I've given up on recommending stuff --- no one else seems to have my needs.
     
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  3. siddhartth

    siddhartth Scribbler - Standard Member

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    I thought when people are in book production and drafting etc, they would be using MS word, Google docs, Foxit and Adobe etc, I have heard infinity editor first time in my life.
    I guess you have science background. Engineer?

    I would not mind to sign a petition to bring it back. I have only seen videos of it. that was the reason I wanted a windows tablet. I saw The video 3 years ago about tablet input panel of windows 10. It was instant love. When I finally got financially sound enough to buy the only Windows Tab available in my country the sp4 (1 week ago), I was surprised to see the abomination the windows 10 input panel is. It's a definite downgrade.

    I did not know such a thing existed. is it backlit at all? I dream about a physical Keyboard that has a small energy efficient display on each Key. So we can change languages and typing styles (QWERTY & DORVAK) & See Emojis like on a touchscreen. I believed e-ink was something which could do that. e-ink displays that use fancy fluorescent reflective pigments that glow in the dark or old fashioned corner/ front lightning.

    But if such a Tech- Transreflective LCD really exists Then would not it be as comfortable/healthy as E-ink? Why is not the e-reader industry adopting it? Because e-ink does not display Colours but LCDs do. What is the caveat? Cost or not as healthy as I think? I am propagating the idea of dual display LED/e-ink front & back surface devices for computing & reading, knowledge of TRLCD makes this idea already obsolete. Thank you Sir. You have raised my expectations to more unsatisfiable/unaffordable levels. A colour full reader/Notebook that is easy on eyes.
    I really donot care about Colour gamut. I was more than satisfied with the colour technology 20 years ago.


    What do you find trouble some with AES?
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2016
  4. siddhartth

    siddhartth Scribbler - Standard Member

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    • India
    • Scripts - Roman, Devnagri, going to learn Arabic
    • Proffession - Allopathic Medical student/Resident
    • Usage -Extensive Note taking in Weekend Proprietary lectures which can extend upto 9 to 12 hrs with 15 minute breaks every 3 to 4 hrs.
    • Tablet I use - SP4
    • Tablet I wanna use - A little bit inspired by Will Adams' dream Tablet
      • Full sized pen
      • 0 gram weight IAF like apple Pencil
      • Transreflective LCD
      • fine point like Note7 SPen 0.7 mm
      • Sampling rate of more than 250 Hz
      • Rubber textured Nib like Surface Pen HB or Wacom Flex
      • With futureproof Note taking app that does -
        • Hand writing recognition
        • Ink to text
        • Audio sync with handwriting
      • Battery life of m one than 15 hrs
      • An OS in which handwriting can be searched through out. like SFinder in Galaxy Note
    • I am not satisfied with my tablet -
      • Pen performance
        • high IAF
        • bad & slow handwriting & loss of detail due to low sampling rate of 120 Hz
      • Poor battery life
      • Very bad input panel
      • bad handwriting recognition
    • I Would recommend it because despite poor handwriting the recorded audio of the lecture helps in keeping the context
    • OneNote derketop full version, Screen Sketch, MS Paint, Nebo app, Edge browser, evernote . I am very happy with these software.
     
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2016
  5. WillAdams

    WillAdams Scribbler - Standard Member

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    FWIW, book production is usually done w/ InDesign and Quark XPress as well as specialty composition tools such as 3B2 and XyVision --- I prefer and use an opensource, math-oriented tool known as TeX, specifically LaTeX, which is a macro package worked up for TeX --- there are a number of TeX-variants, I've used pdfTeX, XeTeX, and am now on LuaLaTeX.

    More's the pity no, ex Air Force guy who did graphic design in college and found his way to math and computer science book composition, and have since transitioned to STM (Science-Technology-Medicine) and database publishing. I've been doing a bit of CNC work related to opensource of late. Recent project:

    http://www.shapeoko.com/projects/project.php?id=154

    Yes, it's fully illuminated --- the design simply adds the backlighting to the reflected ambient light, hence allowing use in bright, direct sunlight.

    The problem is, they don't showroom well, seeming dim in ordinary room light in comparison to displays w/ equivalent backlighting.

    Well, you could look for an Optimus Maximus keyboard.... though searching shows that there's a new, more affordable one: http://www.rakuten.com/prod/optimus-popularis-compact-programmable-lcd-keyboard/284975160.html

    Still surprised no one has done an E-ink keyboard though.

    As noted above, the problem was dim in comparison to other displays, limited colour range, and not show-rooming well. It was as viewable / comfortable (or uncomfortable) as any LCD.

    Low hover distance, and I mislike the spring-loaded moving stylus tip, and the nuisance of replacing the pen cap and replacing batteries. I also haven't been able to puzzle out how to get right-clicking and dragging to work properly.
     
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  6. siddhartth

    siddhartth Scribbler - Standard Member

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    You are probably using software that is not meant to be used with pen. If it does not involve handwriting, drawing, or 3D Sculpting i recommend traditional mouse.The only software I use with pen is Onenote, Nebo & Edge. these are designed in a way short hover is not even an issue. touch and pen are different entities in these Apps.

    You can not take MICROSOFT or any tech company's claim seriously. they showcase only one or two Apps optimised for pen, to make us believe that Tablet PCs have finally arrived. In reality most of the software industry has no plans to optimize their software for pens as
    • Pen has no Standardization as a hardware,
    • Pen users are a very small minority.

    Similarly apple wants you to believe that Ipad pro can replace their laptop, even though if has not Convinced any software partner to port full macOS softwares on iOS.
     
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2016
  7. WillAdams

    WillAdams Scribbler - Standard Member

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    My main complaint re hover distance is w/ the handwriting panel -- it would seem to me that it was designed for use w/ a pen.

    Never needed to use a mouse on a machine w/ an active stylus and only rarely on machines w/ a resistive one
     
  8. siddhartth

    siddhartth Scribbler - Standard Member

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    I am using NTrig. I did not face much of a problem with it. Except for the horrible hand writing recognition. I thought AES had a similar hover range. But still windows 10 hand writing input panels are a single line. It's hard to place one's palm on it. I guess your problem with Short hover range is lack of Visual feedback & I am erroneously as coming that it's about palm rejection.

    And if the problem is about lack of visual feedback then I would suggest you turn off the hover completely & try to use pen assuming it's a real pen. I have found that I rarely need it for handwriting. But then, you might need the hover for other applications that require precision.
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2016
  9. siddhartth

    siddhartth Scribbler - Standard Member

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    I thought LaTeX was a math's typing tool. For maths classes before handwriting recognition became popular. I do not know going through which forum gave me that idea.
    I researched a bit on LCD after reading your post. I found that Not only trans reflective LCD is very dull /dim but is super expensive. Companies that aim for consumer market are dumping it enMasse and never adopted it whole heartedly to begin with. Even the prosumer market of professional standalone monitors and Wacom, Huion are not showing interest in it.

    But I did found something that was right up my alley. the cheapest of LCDs called reflective LCD with no back lighting at all. They can be just as dull as e-ink & totally dependent on front lighting, again just like e-ink. Which theoretically makes it as comfortable as e-ink. With the added advantage of colours & the disadvantage that it will still be may more power consuming than an e rink display and still be a little bit pricier despite being the cheapest option in the LCD universe.

    Though I did found some thing called static LCD which is more power friendly.

    I do not think I would want it as my primary display but as a secondary display on the back of a dual display tablet to be able to read comfortably in the sun or a well lit room. though not as battery friendly as e-ink but I think lack of backlighting will squeeze some more hours. May be an hour or two. If that static LCD technology can be implemented on reflective LCD it will be a great power saver. But the fact that no major Consumer based company is attempting it, suggests that the advantages in my head are more theoretical than practical. There might be some engineering technicality that I do not know of.

    But still the e-ink keyboard idea seems like a no brainer to me. People say that e-ink display keycaps be ring opaque by nature can not be back lit like conventional key caps. But I hope there must be some fluorescent-glow in the dark type pigments that could work with e-ink technology. Such a solution will solve the problem of e-ink not being Compatible with backlighting. I really wish I was an engineer.

    A forum member also told me about optimus, but it turned out to be oled not e-ink. I want such display fitted keycaps on mobile devices like Laptops, Tablets & phones, so battery efficiency of e-ink will go a long way. OLED and LCD can not compete in that arena. I would buy keycap stickers instead if it was about stationary tabletop/desktop computing. Personally I am more of a handwriting input panel guy.

    Then it simply is not as comfortable as e-ink. Thus no health benefits. I assume you do not want if for eye comfort but for the ability to work in both sunny outdoors as wall as dark rooms. Have you tried Samsung's Super AMOLED displays.

    Pen can never replace the Steadiness of Mouse. Apple is trying some things to make stylus a more functional device, if patents are to be believed but I doubt they will achieve anything practical other than ability to scroll down a page as one strokes the body of the pencil.
    Pen & Mouse fit well into how human body, it's visual-Spatial-tactile-auditory feedback & motor control have been chiselled by millennia of evolution. Why pen is good for drawing and writing & why mouse is so efficient at getting exactly where you want it to be in the text field, and why touchpad just is not as satisfying an experience, compared to how pen and mouse feel when using them for what they do best, has much to do with why people prefer to swing blades while doing constant foot work but snipers prefer to Iay flat and still in a perch.

    It's about balancing -
    • the freedom to move in different directions and dimensions to achieve the requisite range of movement
    with

    • achieving desired precision by limiting movement to fewer & fewer dimensions.
    when I see these CEOs trying to sell The world " newer" and "revolutionary" input methods for mobility devices, I know for sure these guys do not know what they are talking about. One can not create meaningful industrial design without understanding human Kinesiology & psychology & the evolutionary processes that shaped them both.

    touchpads would have been one of the biggest scam of this century if it was not for the arrival of multi touch gestures which marginally saved their reputation. the movements that touchpads require are not very healthy for our fingers.

    Though touch pads with display and pencil compatibility might save the day for macOS obviating the need for any touch/pen compatible primary displays. Just pan & zoom
    to annotate & sign. Excellent solution for light document annotators.Not suitable for science & art class though.
     
  10. WillAdams

    WillAdams Scribbler - Standard Member

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    LaTeX is a macro package for the typesetting system TeX. While it's well-suited to typesetting mathematics, it can be used for any sort of typographic or page layout or writing work, see http://www.tug.org/texshowcase/ --- an interesting innovation is LyX, which I view as one of the most innovative of opensource applications done recently.

    Reflective LCD was a nice thing back in the day and worked well on my Newton MessagePad --- Asus recently did a machine w/ it, which if it'd had better specs, I'd've been more interested in. A colour version would be nice.

    Not understanding this mantra that pens can't replace mice --- for portable work they certainly can, and in many ways have superior precision, accuracy and expressiveness (drawing w/ a mouse is like drawing w/ a bar of soap).

    Apple will get the hardware right, and eventually, someone will write an app which takes full advantage of their Pencil stylus. Certainly Rosetta is a decent base to build upon and worked well for the Newton.

    I've never much liked touchpads, preferring trackpoints --- I think it'd be nice if manufacturers would do a better job of providing options for input. This includes pens, and I wish that Wacom would afford more pen options --- I was very glad that my Wacom Intuos 3 SE included two different sized pens, and really need to find occasion to buy the matching airbrush and 6D Art Pen and really enjoyed the tracing puck which I used to use on my Wacom ArtZ. For laptops and convertibles, there should be a choice of keyboards w/ one's choice of trackpad/trackpoint (or both for folks who can't make up their mind) and I wish that small USB keyboards w/ trackpoints were more readily available --- the Bluetooth keyboard case I have for my Toshiba would be greatly improved if it had a trackpoint rather than touchpad.
     
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