Best Smartphone Companion for Surface Devices

Discussion in 'Microsoft' started by dstrauss, Jun 23, 2016.

  1. desertlap

    desertlap Scribbler - Standard Member Senior Member

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    Good points all. In fact Sony is now a cautionary tale in business and marketing classes in universities of how a market leader can go off the rails. Interestingly my daughters professor asserts that it was when Sony ventured in to music and movies such as the Columbia Records purchase that the seeds of decline began.

    Which makes Apples recent ventures in to original content all the more interesting. And equally intriguing is MS moves in the recent pas such as dropping music and books. Perhaps Panay sees the danger of loss of focus?
     
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  2. dstrauss

    dstrauss Comic Relief Senior Member

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    I beg to differ (a bit) with your daughter's professor (as I do with most professors, my son included). I think Sony's downfall was proprietary behavior and DRM. Betamax, memory sticks, etc., coupled with their over the top root kit crap with DRM, resulted in a lot of defections to alternate providers. I'm sure venturing into media plays hastened the decline, but I always thought that was their way to enforce DRM on digital media as much as creating their own media powerhouse.
     
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  3. Steve S

    Steve S Pen Pro - Senior Member Super Moderator

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    <<...I think Sony's downfall was proprietary behavior and DRM. Betamax, memory sticks, etc.,...resulted in a lot of defections to alternate providers...>>

    As a consumer (rather than an academic), I think that Dale's interpretation of events is closer to what influenced me back in the day. Sony was a powerhouse of leading edge products in the late 60s and 70s, but some of their products weren't very "open." In the aforementioned clié, I can remember being irritated by its "stick of gum" memory card which I couldn't use in anything else. In the bigger picture, I think that Sony also got fixated on a few narrower markets (like TVs and much later Play Stations) and simply stopped innovating across their larger product line. Maybe they also got a little too comfortable with their legacy market in Japan, I don't know. All I can say is that, in the market areas that I was interested in, primarily audio and electronics, Sony let themselves be overtaken. Some time in the 70s, they became a non-player to me...
     
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  4. Marty

    Marty Pen Pro - Senior Member Senior Member

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    I think you guys are kind of stuck in the nostalgia of Sony as a retail electronics competitor (which I miss too :oops:); and also focusing too much from the American perspective.

    First, they are very much alive and kicking in Japan. They are essentially an IBM of Japan (along with other zaibatsu like Toshiba), they are omnipresent in every part of the economy. In fact, their major business isn't even electronics at all. They sell life insurance and offer financial and consulting services to other businesses, where it is prestigious just to have your name associated with Sony.

    Their previous network of suppliers, hardware/software technical expertise, and overall business connections means they have their hands in almost every government advisory board and technical project of note.

    Just as "IBM" is not on any products that people buy anymore, but still generally respected, people in Japan (and to degree in other countries) still associate Sony with technical and 'fun' home innovation. So they are actually kind of like an 'Apple' of Japan, in addition to being an 'IBM' in business.

    So overall I'd say they did pretty well for themselves, no? ;)
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2020
  5. dstrauss

    dstrauss Comic Relief Senior Member

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    Diversification doesn't address losing their place as an electronics market leader - that is my point. Ford and GMC sell more financing/insurance contracts than vehicles - but still lead in their base industry.
     
  6. desertlap

    desertlap Scribbler - Standard Member Senior Member

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    Actually you do agree :
    DRM was pushed by the content side of the house. Most notably the "root kit "fiasco with the software for managing the mini disc players. The electronics side resisted DRM and the content side actually contracted with a 3rd party company which created the root kit.

    Additionally I think that Sony is also a solid example albeit on the wrong side of the the perils of disruptive tech. I.e they were busy protecting the cassette and mini disc instead of embracing solid state tech and combining it with the outstanding DNA they had of great audio and solid portable device experience.
     
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  7. desertlap

    desertlap Scribbler - Standard Member Senior Member

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    Agreed on all counts, but...

    Speaking as a somewhat selfish consumer, I miss the innovation and just "cool" products that used to be associated with Sony. Yes what they do makes the shareholders happy but produces boring products.
     
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  8. Kumabjorn

    Kumabjorn ***** is back Senior Member

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    Sony's decline started when Akio Morita tried to hand over the company to his son. The boy was a spoiled brat with no sense for business. The CEO at the time, a former opera singer, that had caught Ibuka's attention because of his thorough analysis of Sony's audio products really resented the kid. This created a lot of confusion in the organisation since Japanese leaders are huge on loyalty (bushido is alive and kicking), in essence people were expected to chose sides and everybody knows that blood is thicker than a finely attuned ear. A lot of people also disliked the schism, but only young employees are really in a position to move out. Once you're passed 35 you are kind of stuck due to pension plans and what not. Suddenly there was a whole generation of eager engineers missing.

    This led to proprietarygate. Everything Sony produced (including the chewing gum memory sticks) were locked into Sony products and the dumb mofos didn't even license them to others so they could be used in a variety of products. Not only that but their memory sticks was like 50% more than comparative USB memory. Consumers around the world, including Japan, were livid with them. The son, living in the clouds, was oblivious to the outrage. Once Morita passed away the path to removing the son was now opened.

    Since then they have struggled to get back their reputation. As @Marty rightly pointed out, they diversified in Japan. Opened up a chain stora with imported goods. Maybe they still exist, just not where I live. I think they have tried to get back to their core, slowly but steadily but the cash flow from insurance and such is hard to resist.

    In Japan they still have a good reputation for quality. Their TVs are 30 - 40 % more than other Japanese makers and if you want LG or Samsung you often, at least outside the big cities, have to look for it online, and if you are over 40 yo don't really shop online (yes, there are obviously exceptions), so they still hang on in rural markets here. An advantage they don't have in foreign markets. Also, they are pretty much marginalized in growing markets like Korea, China and India. They are today too dependent on replacement purchases from loyal Sony fans. A dying breed.

    20 years from now I predict they will be a components supplier for Google Cars. But don't hold me to it, I hope to stick around. :p:rolleyes:
     
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  9. desertlap

    desertlap Scribbler - Standard Member Senior Member

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    So a question for the group. How much did you use tethering to your phone versus using a device with built in LTE?

    We’ve been doing some tests and while they’re only about 50% complete, we have discovered some interesting tidbits.

    First of all our tests are specific to tasks that would be used with our devices so they may not 100% apply across the board.

    The biggest discovery was that an assumption that we had as default; that built in LTE would be the absolute fastest in raw speed due to both being built in and not being a “two step process” with the phone as an intermediary device turned out to be false.

    In the case specifically of the iPad Mini and the two current iPad Pros, they were in aggregate about 25-35% faster in throughput native versus tethering them to an IPhone 11.

    However, the surface go, an hp elite book and a dell latitude were actually about 15% faster tethered to the iPhone than using their on board LTE.

    And just to add another head scratcher; for those same devices the results were even faster (as much as 30%) when attached to a Galaxy Note 10. But the IPads connected to that same Note 10 were about 30% slower than the HP or Dell.

    Intriguingly, so far the raw speed champ both native and serving as a hot spot is the Samsung Galaxy Book 2, by anywhere from 10-40% dependent on distance from the tower and carrier (best on Verizon, worst on T-mobile and AT&T middle)

    Additionally we have further data of something we’ve observed anecdotally which is that when getting a connection at all in marginal areas, the Book 2 is hands down the champ with the regular IPhone 11 and Note 10 + tied for a distant second.

    There are a gazillion variables involved here and thus while we are still testing and gathering data.

    A couple of other clear points though. One is that if you are going to tether and need top speed, take your phone out of its case. Across the board , having a case on reduced speed on average about 15-20% and more importantly reduced marginal signal acquisition by as much as 35%

    And of course things like having the phone in hand, pocket or bag also impaired the connection significantly.

    PS: One other odd thing we discovered specific to the Note 10+. If you want best tethering speed with most laptops , you should place the phone horizontally as close as possible to your pc’s WiFi antenna. Just turning vertically as you would typically as you set the phone and PC on a table cuts the speed by about 15%

    TLDR: On board LTE is convenient and usually can give you the best speeds but not always.

    PPS: The signal capture champs across all devices we’ve tested so far for phones are the regular iPhone 11 and the Note 10+ and the Galaxy Book 2 for PC’s . Note that they are not the speed champs per se, but getting a usable signal at all.

    Testing continues....
     
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  10. Bronsky

    Bronsky Wait and Hope. Senior Member

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    Great post.
     
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