Asus VivoTab Note 8 - Reviews

Discussion in 'Asus' started by PECgem, Jan 7, 2014.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. surfaceproartist

    surfaceproartist Scribbler - Standard Member Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,930
    Likes Received:
    1,893
    Trophy Points:
    181
    In my light use case, I overindex on pen use as I've never used the AVTN8 for anything other than sketching.
     
  2. Mesosphere

    Mesosphere Geek. Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,319
    Likes Received:
    2,082
    Trophy Points:
    331
    Yes, I'm sure you do =) It wasn't so much that I felt you are on the "light use" end of the spectrum so much as your comment reminded me of that potential bias in the sample. On average, the usage of the sample is almost certainly higher than the usage of the general population of buyers.
     
  3. surfaceproartist

    surfaceproartist Scribbler - Standard Member Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,930
    Likes Received:
    1,893
    Trophy Points:
    181
    No doubt.
     
  4. yuki

    yuki Scribbler - Standard Member

    Messages:
    186
    Likes Received:
    87
    Trophy Points:
    41
    In the EU have, there are mimimum full 2 years warranty (with right to return & refund if faults are not corrected). Within these minimum 2 years, by law, as example, Germany: If a product does fail 3 times, even if you use it for a looong time, you can return it & collect a full refund.

    That is one of the reasons why no sane dealer sells products mit more than 1,2,3% RMA/repair rate, 5% already would be catatstrophic and result in an immediate de-listing by the larger resellers (as amazon etc) who track their inventory & aftersales in realtime - and why manufacturers can´t afford to sell products who have high failure rates (as 5% or above) within 24 months.

    Simple example: If one has ONE return on a 200$ product with 220$ retail, one needs TEN perfect sales without any hiccups to reach break-even alone, and no one wants to sell for break-even - but for profit.
     
  5. yuki

    yuki Scribbler - Standard Member

    Messages:
    186
    Likes Received:
    87
    Trophy Points:
    41
    I have my (perfectly working since day 1) AVTN8 in use almost daily, typically for hours, mostly pen.

    Thanks for your blog btw - i really like it! IIRC in your review on the blog, you preferred the larger tabs, and therefore gave the AVTN8 only a so-so review.

    Well, from another professional graphic/arts user, a remark - i mainly dont do pure illustration&painting - but rotoscoping for VFX, warp/morphing as well as cel-animation for TV/cinema - for that i actually often prefer the 8´ AVTN8 over my larger 11,6 (ntrig) and 10 (wacom).

    Also the usual 1920/2048*1080 source materials pose no real challenge for the baytrail quadcore - and as a funny sidenote, i now have my elder software licenses (as elastic reality and combustion :)) moved to the AVTN8 - which has more horsepower than the $$.$$$ workstations these $$$$ softwares were originally designed for. :)
     
    surfaceproartist likes this.
  6. Mesosphere

    Mesosphere Geek. Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,319
    Likes Received:
    2,082
    Trophy Points:
    331
    What your saying makes a lot of sense in terms of profits and all that. I know sometimes individual products fail to turn a profit though, and not all of those products are discontinued. Also, if a retailer takes a returned product, do they really lose out on the entire cost for that device (as your example above suggests)? They don't return it to the manufacturer or anything? Isn't that the source of refurbished units? Also, with the 2 year warranty you speak of - it is honored by the retailer (not the manufacturer)?

    My problem is that from all that I've heard I have a really hard time believing the failure rate is in the 1-3% range. I could believe the test I did is higher than the true rate, but 1-3% just doesn't seem reasonable to me. To many people on these boards have joined initially happy with their purchases to later have the pen fail on them. I only kept track of 32 of them in my study, but I'm fairly confident the rate of failure for people who have discussed this tablet prior to experiencing a failure and later came back to report a failure is much higher than 1-3%.

    If anything that mode of measurement will underestimate failure rate because it will mark people who have a failure but don't come back to mention it as having a working device. Below is a table of all possible outcomes:

    upload_2015-3-2_15-2-23.png

    For my study to be representative of the whole population (beyond the random ~17% sampling error). Then subset 1 must be representative of the whole population and nobody should fall into the 1b set otherwise the result will be biased low compared to the true failure rate.

    Further, ones decision to discuss their tablet prior to it failing must be independent of the pens likelihood to fail. This could be potentially false if heavier usage increases likelihood of failure and those that discuss tend to use the devices more heavily.

    Another bias is this test was performed early in the lifetime of the device and on an English speaking forum (US, UK, Canada, Australia bias). Worldwide and across the lifetime of production runs the true rate could vary.

    It is possible that later production runs improved things; however, I'm skeptical because we continue to hear stories from excited new owners that later come back to tell us of failures later on. I didn't keep track like I did with the initial study, but I have followed this device closely (I've probably read almost every post regarding the device posted on TPCR), and I just don't believe that only 1-3% of the forum members (whom discussed their tablet prior to failure) have experienced a failure.

    We are probably just going around and circles at this point though =P It is natural for one to trust their own information and areas of expertise over others. For me, the reports of failures on these boards (properly adjusted for obvious bias) is too trustworthy a data set to ignore. Analyzing data is what I do (I'm a research scientist). For you, your experience in business is more trustworthy. Probably neither of us will convince the other at this point without some new definitive source of information we both trust =P
     
    Bronsky likes this.
  7. fishdavis

    fishdavis Scribbler - Standard Member

    Messages:
    303
    Likes Received:
    124
    Trophy Points:
    56
    Really? That's interesting, why? I thought for that stuff you'd want a desktop. (not my field)
     
  8. yuki

    yuki Scribbler - Standard Member

    Messages:
    186
    Likes Received:
    87
    Trophy Points:
    41
    Well, many CGI/VFX/Matsering jobs indeed are done better on a workstation (not a usual desktop) with dual Xeon/ quad Opteron and 24, 36, 64 cores and 2,3,4 GPUs- or even clustered with over 100 cpucores and 8 GPUs.

    Systems like over 100 cores and 8 GPUs usually are used for mastering & grading top-quality cinema (as in multi-layer sources, lots of 4-6K RAW video streams, add high frame rate as 48P and stereoscopic 3D. A good example for that class would be systems as Davinci Resolve (Cluser), the baselight 8 mastering systems etc. Here we have a baselight 8:
    [​IMG]
    Slightly more heavy and expensive than a Vivotab Note 8, the User of this computer(cluster of computers actually) can handle even multiple uncompressed 4K sources with high frame rates, combined with RAW 4-6K and some FX in realtime (in 3D).

    For those jobs, one also adds a calibrated display (or more typical, a DCI compliant projector) - thats the six digit class (which i work a lot on).

    Also usually one uses an attached dedicated controller - in case of a baselight system that would be the "blackboard":
    [​IMG]

    Usually includesd a nice (small) wacom as well.

    One step below - HEAVY 3D cgi workload, models with multimillions polygons, Tbytes of textures. Compositing, as in combining & manipulating many layers of video (to replace sky, add buildings, remove wires the actors are attached to, or simply erase the non-fitting cars which pass in the background etc).

    That class is usually end-four until end-five digits. Typical softwares are a combo of 3dsmax/blender/maya/houdini for 3D, fusion/nuke/mystika/flame on dual-xeon workstations with typical 24-36 cores, one or two internal RAIDs of SSD/HDD, 1-3 GPU. Also its not rare to see them loaded with the full Adobe Suite - be it as addition to plenty of other softwares or stand alone.

    Often these workstations have attached wacom/cintiq/etc digitizers.

    typical they look something like this:
    [​IMG]

    Well, and the tiny Vivotab Note 8?

    Funny enough - it outperforms ANY workstation which was used for Terminator II & Aliens, Titanic & Star Wars I, Jurassic Parc & Matrix - back then workstations had 2*200 Mhz, or 4*600 Mhz etc. Having even 1 GB RAM was a dream for many users.

    So its good enough for classic Visual FX - especially if you use less demanding software (as example, i run my old discreet combustion license as well as my elastic reality on it) - and its a fantastic little tool: I go on location, take photos/shoot video (usually with my quite expensive Canon VDSLR, but sometimes even the mediocre integrated cameras of the Asus will have to do :)) - add some building, replace the sky, give it a look - all that works well - even 1080P/2K resolution can be worked on without too much trouble, or a not-coo-complex 3D model & animation can be added with blender. Its very efficient, and will work in many locations where i simply couldnt use my desktop-replacement i7 power-notebook. Same with storyboarding, rotoscoping (which is basically painting over&in film&video) etc pp. Great for outdoor use, great for special shooting (think helicopters, boats etc), great to always have it on you (in case you have an idea while having breakfast in the hotel, or simply in a meeting with fellow co-workers) etc.

    For mastering a 4k/3D/HFR-cinema package - no way the vivotab will be a good choice. For complex 3D CGI/Animation and heavy compositing of maaaany layers with 4k each - also no good choice. Also for editing complex 3D/2K/4K/HFR - the poor vivotab would be choking nonstop, for all these jobs there are much better systems. But for rotoscoping a single-layer (which is typical), for painting & retouching a background, for graphic design & inserts (as the hilarious funny & silly stuff you usually see on computer screens in movies :)), for modelling the basic 3D (which later on will be refinedd in the studio), for creating very nice set-extensions or replacements directly on location and much more... the vivotab is a fantastic little device. You cant carry around a workstation, the vivotab however can be always with you - and run the professional softwares.


    And finally: Its not the arrow, its the indian who makes the difference.

    Typical Film/Video is "only" 1920*1080 or 2048*1080 - Photoshop on the Vivotab has to work with MUCH higher resolutions even coming from smartphones these days, the vivotab (as any baytrail) has zero problems playing back HD in realtime, it runs the same professional software as the fat dual-xeons back in the studio (except those who require 64bit+min 4gb, but these are few) - so for many video&cgi users, its a dream come true. Not perfect and not suitable for all tasks, but good enough for most of them.
     
    Mesosphere, Marty and fishdavis like this.
  9. fishdavis

    fishdavis Scribbler - Standard Member

    Messages:
    303
    Likes Received:
    124
    Trophy Points:
    56
    Thanks for the informative post. Fascinating, I didn't think the note 8 would suit vfx work, I guess it is a similar thing to what I am using it for -- 'small-scale' and roughs.

    I didn't even bother loading zbrush/maya onto it. I figured they would run ok for lowpoly stuff but I've already had to cut down on installed programs due to lack of space (stupid psds) :) how is blender's performance?

    the thought of using maya on an 8 inch screen makes my head hurt...
     
  10. yuki

    yuki Scribbler - Standard Member

    Messages:
    186
    Likes Received:
    87
    Trophy Points:
    41
    Yeah, and also doing "final small modifications" on large projects. Given the choice between the dual xeon-workstation and the vivotab, i certainly wouldnt use the Vivotab for a HUGE 3D project which i have to work on for a week - if the workstation gives me 25 fps and the vivotab 4 fps.

    However, once the base & mayor works are done, and i visit the client, or go home (knowing that only minor adjustments will be demanded by the client) - i simply put the large project on the vivotab. So i dont have to return to the office/studio for the modifications after meeting the client, or @home in can do the small changes with a cup of coffee in the garden... VERY nice. The project which takes maybe 5 seconds to open on the workstation might take half a minute to load, so what.

    And for usual stuff (as logos, reccolor, rotoscope, average size 3d models etc) the vivotab is more than powerful enough.

    I would recommend blender for the vivotab - i own 3ds max, but maya and max are MUCH more resource-hungry, blender is lean, and its larger user-interface elements (which i dont like so much on a 27-30 inch screen) actually are better suited for the 1280*800 vivotab.

    Also running VERY nice are combustion 2008, elastic reality. These combined with blender, lightworks (32bit), krita and an old license oft Adobe premiere pro CS4 832 bit as well), handbrake as encoder transform the vivotab into a "pocket-cgi/vfx-workstation".

    And quad 1,86 Ghz @ 2 Gbyte RAM are plenty if one knows what one is doing. A good artist will make a Silicon Graphics Indy with 150 Mhz shine with Eddie, will produce state-of-the-art-top-class video on a 600 Mhz SGI Octane with Flame, will do excellent logo&art&model work on a dual 866 Mhz pentium III workstation with 3ds max, so i certainly wont complain about a quad 1,86 Ghz with combustion&elastic reality, premiere pro CS4 & lightworks, handbrake & blender.
     
    fishdavis likes this.
Loading...
Similar Threads - Asus VivoTab Note
  1. Kumabjorn
    Replies:
    8
    Views:
    3,891
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page