Asus VivoTab Note 8 - Reviews

Discussion in 'Asus' started by PECgem, Jan 7, 2014.

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  1. Kumabjorn

    Kumabjorn ***** is back Senior Member

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    It isn't pretty, the front is black the back is white. It looks like it should be in a Paul McCartney/Michael Jackson video.
     
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  2. Mesosphere

    Mesosphere Geek. Senior Member

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    My guess is Churchill didn't have a good understanding of statistics. Statistics never lie, but people who don't understand what they are saying can easily be mislead by them... unfortunately most people fall in the don't understand category. Also, drawing false conclusions from statistics is common, but that isn't the fault of the statistics it is the fault of the person analyzing them.

    I'm not talking about date of buy, I'm talking about the build date printed on the back of the device. It is certainly possible that the failure rate dropped with later builds, but the problems definitely continued to occur, which leads me to suspect they didn't correct the underlying problem.

    As I have said several times now, I eliminate the bias you speak of (people with problems are more likely to talk about them than those that don't) by only including tablets which were discussed prior to the pen failing, and I selected the sample (by user total post count) which should not be correlated to the chance their pen will later fail.

    The bias that remains is these devices were all early production runs (I think between 12/2013 and 2/2014), and my data set definately doesn't say anything about later built units.

    The small sample size is definitely an issue, but that effect can be quantified. The odds that the true rate I was trying to sample were really single digits is ~7% (assuming zero bias). It is a small chance, but it is not impossible. Equally likely though is that the true rate was over ~60%.

    In the RMAs I'm talking about (mine for example), they replaced the digitizer cable. They didn't swap out the unit.
     
  3. dstrauss

    dstrauss Comic Relief Senior Member

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    I'm almost sorry I opened up this statistics wound. When I said you were perhaps an "anomaly" I wasn't referring to you being "the lucky one and only" but more that you are an anomaly among the suffering souls here, and perhaps more a reflection of the real world (oops, just ducked a hard thrown tomato - or was that a rock - from Meso)...
     
  4. yuki

    yuki Scribbler - Standard Member

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    Well, there is the old joke about the chicken being always glad to see the farmer as in exactly 100% of all meetings the chicken was fed by the farmer until one day...

    ... and causality can be a b1t*h - statistics never lie, sure, but unless one gets -all- relevant parameters from -all- sources - it cant be not truthful, but is interpretation - as demonstrated by the huge difference in the results between the forum and your survey and the French/german retail chain. Btw: if they see two-digit RMAs, they (as most retailers) simply delist the item instantly - no one sustains such RMAs, as even 5% RMA on low-margin&revenue items as sub 500$ tabs pushes the whole biz into losses.

    my (perfectly working non-stop since day 1, in use almost daily for hours ) vivotab shows 3/2014.

    the inquiry to the retail-manager regarding any higher RMA-rates on the vivotab note 8 was late summer 2014 (iirc around august) and AFAIK they only track the last 3 months/bizquarter, so probably he only could see may 2014 onwards in his database.

    And, as mentioned, from my experience, any sane retailer anyhow delists items with two digit RMA instantly - especially if you only make 20 bucks on +-200$ stock cost, the item in question raises all red flags in any self-respecting retail database instantly.
     
  5. Marty

    Marty Pen Pro - Senior Member Senior Member

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    Given your experience in retail, do you happen to know:

    1) What price from were retailers getting the M80T for? I've seen prices vary widely from <$200 to >$400, from different retailers at the same. There seemed to be no logic, or standard depreciation, controlling the price across retailers.

    2) Were sales/inventory generally pretty good? From these forums, we know it probably cornered the tablet PC enthusiast market looking for a sub-8" tablet. But when priced at <$300 (w/free Office and included pen), I could see it competing well with the DV8P in the general consumer market.

    3) What was the major cause for ASUS dropping Wacom in the M81T/M82T? Did the market data suggest that people weren't willing to pay more for a higher quality digitizer? Sacrificing the niche market they already cornered seems counter productive. Why not simply offer two versions?

    Thanks man :vbwink:
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2015
  6. yuki

    yuki Scribbler - Standard Member

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    Well, i was in distribution, not retail. Distributors import the goods and sell it to the retailers. Gives a nice "eagle point of view".

    I can only provide general information - and guesstimates - as I have no current information and data for Asus.

    Generally, the distributor adds 5-15% on top for cheaper, 15-40% for more expensive products. Pretty much the same is done by resellers, mailorders and retail channels. Therefore usually the enduser has to pay from 5+5% over 15+15% up to 40+40% profits to the dealer&distributor.

    Also, if a product is new, distributors and manufacturers try to start with the full recommended price. This usually changes, and the prices drop, once stock is higher than demand.

    Sometimes however, resellers, especially larger ones which basically don't need / cut out distribution, as amazon etc, go directly to the manufacturer - and buy a large quantity. This sometimes gives them even better prices than the distributors themselves get.

    If you combine both - sinking prices later on and direct procurement from the manufacturer - it is perfectly possible that the same goods are listed for 200$ and 375$ at the same time.

    I have no precise data. However, the indirect indicators (as -how many resellers offer the product, -how many accessories are made for it by 3hrd parties, -how many buyer reviews show up in the usual places, -how often is the item being searched for in the internet search providers engines and how many links do these find, -how much stock is listed as available in the channels etc) all indicate that the Vivotab Note 8 is selling pretty good: Its listed everywhere, plenty of 3hrd party manufacturers offer products for it, its a popular search on the web with plenty of websites covering it, and the resellers take a lot of it into stock & reserves.

    As guesstimate from experience and the minimal retail data I have I would certainly see it in the six-digit sales.

    Cheaper products with less functions (as dell venue pro, hp stream 7 etc) however most certainly sell better. Most endusers have limited knowledge about the benefits of stuff like stylus & gps etc. and look mainly for low prices - which also is one of the reasons for the huge success of 50-100$ arm/android gadgets.

    Manufacturers often have no or even wrong ideas about the market. Also, most coorp are mainly managed by beancounters, not experts, engineers etc. So I would guess: increased profits and reduced RMA (return/repair/etc). I often think about joining a tablet manufacturer as asus, simply because there are so many uncovered markets, and no one got it right (as in perfect) yet - which would be easy. But usually getting to the right position inside such a coorp is a multi-year process ofc.

    my pleasure.
     
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  7. Marty

    Marty Pen Pro - Senior Member Senior Member

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    I suppose this is true of any consumer device...however, I still felt that the VTN8 had much more price variation than most other tablets.

    I wonder if this has to do with how ASUS sets up its reseller distribution channels. I've noticed other peculiarities with their notebooks, where there will be wide variation in pricing/model availability sometimes months apart. (Acer is also quite bad in this regard.)

    Which is why making 2 versions at different price points makes the most sense. I mean the Venue has a "Pro" version, the Galaxy Note has a "Pro" version, it just seems like such a wasted opportunity for Asus.

    Please do! Someone from here needs to get on the inside and set these mysterious "powers-that-be" straight.

    Just tell them you come with the full regard of the biggest tablet forum on the internet. :vbbiggrin:
     
  8. Mesosphere

    Mesosphere Geek. Senior Member

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    I think we will just have to agree to disagree yuki =)

    Again... Unless somehow someones willingness talk about their perfectly working device increases the likelihood that it will fail in the future.... I fail to see how your happy chicken example applies to how I selected the tablets. That is a very real effect, which I was aware of and took (I think adequate) steps to avoid.

    Also, a failure rate above 10% does not imply a retailer return rate of above 10%. I'd wager a majority of M80T users rarely if ever use their pen (most Galaxy Note users don't use it and probably a significant fraction of SP users), so they may not notice their a pen failure. Also, most failures will probably occur after the 14-30 day return window, and (I think) most of those people will deal with Asus directly with their problems not the retailer. Still others will just curse out loud when they noticed their pen failure and throw the piece of junk in a closet. I think the retailer that sold these devices will never hear about most of the failures.
     
  9. surfaceproartist

    surfaceproartist Scribbler - Standard Member Senior Member

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    I don't use my AVTN8 often but it's still going strong.
     
  10. Mesosphere

    Mesosphere Geek. Senior Member

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    Yours is among those on my list of 65% functioning. Good to hear it is still correctly labeled =)

    That brings up a good point though. One bias my list probably tends towards is more heavy users (people interested to discuss a problem free tablet are probably not light users of that tablet). As I said before, many people probably don't use the pen at all, but still others may only use the pen (or the tablet) on rare occasions. If use of the pen/tablet increases likelihood of failure, then the resulting failure rate of the general population may be lower. In that case, my sample would be representative of the failure rate from relatively heavy users (although the degree of bias on that would be hard to quantify).
     
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