AMD Ryzen

Discussion in 'Hardware' started by Steve S, Feb 15, 2017.

  1. RT545

    RT545 Scribbler - Standard Member

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    AMD is not the only threat to Intel. The other real game changer really is the performances that the best ARM processors are reaching those days. To put things in perspective:

    [​IMG]

    As a reminder, here are also the scores for the 95W TDP processors for both Intel and AMD in Geekbench

    [​IMG]

    So, the best ARM architecture based CPU is the very recent Apple A11 Bionic, a CPU that has 6 cores, a 2,4GHz frequency, and a TDP that remains in the low class of ARM processors (I could not find its precise power consumption for the moment).

    Of course those geekbench scores need to be moderated for the ARM processors; if they generally draw less than 5W of power, geekbench does not give an idea of the TDP, and it is very likely that, in order to reach those results, power limits are exceeded. It will be really interesting to see how things develop as soon as there are windows on ARM devices released, and as soon as we can confront the benchmark tests on those machines with the amount of power really drawn from the battery (if it can perform the exact same amount of geekbench operations on a WoA device while drawing less battery), and see if two or three ARM processors put together can beat an X86 AMD or Intel based processor for the same TDP. Future will tell…

    (Geekbench sources:
    Intel i7 6600U, Intel i7 8550U, Intel i7 4770HQ, AMD Ryzen 5 2500U, Qualcomm snapdragon 835, Samsung Exynos 8895 Octa, Apple A10X fusion, Apple A11 Bionic, Intel i7 8700K, AMD ryzen 7 1800X)
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2017
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  2. sonichedgehog360

    sonichedgehog360 Editor-in-Chief of TechAndTiny Senior Member

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    Just keep in mind that A series processors boost their clock speed very high above the standard TDP for short durations. However, in sustained workloads, they get as little as 40% less performance after running for 5 to 10 minutes.

    [​IMG]

    This is one reason why x86 designs still as of yet reigns supreme in this area and also why I often call Geekbench boost clock roulette. Tabletmark paints a different picture entirely of the situation when taking into account sustained performance. Though this is a bit dated, the same general gap in performance still applies:

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2017
  3. RT545

    RT545 Scribbler - Standard Member

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    So they cheat, as I already guessed, thanks for the precision; but this remains good, nonetheless:

    1- as you pointed in your previous post, 8550U also cheats (most of the 8550U devices we have seen are actually typically also in the 25W TDP up configuration) and AMD's 2700U might also use the 25W TDP up sometimes, in order to reach their circa 13000 score in Geekbench for the multicore measure

    2- What we are trying to infer here is the performance per watt measure (and I agree that Geekbench should get a measure of the battery if possible in order to get an idea of the quantity of energy used for a same task on the different devices where the test is performed):

    In the interest of demonstration, let's assume that the best ARM CPUs, for example Apple's A11 bionic, is rather around 6000 in Geekbench multicore (= -40% of the 10000 score displayed here, taking the -40% performance decrease after 10 minutes that you mentioned). This is something that can be assumed, because this would place it around the score of the Snapdragon 835, that is already one year old; the next version of Qualcomm's processor will be the Snapdragon 845 (released soon at start of next year, followed by 855 on a TSMC 8nm node). 845 will use the latest versions of the ARM cores (cortex A75, cortex A55, and upgrade their big.little core organization to the newer dynamIQ multicore technology (see https://www.androidauthority.com/arm-cortex-a75-cortex-a55-breakdown-770380/)); this generally always happens like that anyway: Apple engineers do their own set of optimisations, then they release a CPU that takes the crown for some time, then ARM catches up by providing a next implementation to licencees, and we see CPUs by Qualcomm, Samsung that catch up to Apple's level).

    So to come back to our demonstration, it is safe to assume that the best ARM processors are somewhere around 6000 in Geekbench, this by remaining at a TDP that is below 5W. And so I come to my point, which is that if you take two of those best ARM CPUs of today (for example two Snapdragon 845 or else two A11 bionic) and put those two CPUs in a same machine, then they could very well reach the 12000 multicore score of the 8550U, or of the 2500U, but this time consuming only 10W total, not cheating, and not reaching any >15 W TDP (25 W TDP up) in order to do so.

    Now take 4 of them put together and you can eventually match the score of a 95W 8700K or of a 1800X... But for only 20 W...

    Future will tell if the soon to be released windows 10 ARM based devices will be something truly worthy. But early reports already predict some 20 hours battery life...

    (see what Paul Thurrott has to say about the expectations on windows on ARM: https://www.thurrott.com/windows/wi...connected-windows-10-pcs-approach-finish-line)
     
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2017
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  4. Marty

    Marty Scribbler - Standard Member Senior Member

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    Well this is a surprise...if you can't beat 'em, join em? :confused:

    Intel to Create new 8th Generation CPUs with AMD Radeon Graphics with HBM

    [​IMG]

    This is serious news in Intel chip architecture...with "Embeddeed Multi-Die Interconnect Bridge" can now go from huge multi-chip packages like this:
    [​IMG]
    to directly integrated single-chip packages with 3rd-party graphics cores like this:

    [​IMG]

    Might we see AMD replacing Intel Iris in the coming years? That would give AMD an astonishing foothold in the laptop graphics market, which might force Nvidia to react with its own EMIB module for Intel.

    Well played Intel...
     
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  5. sonichedgehog360

    sonichedgehog360 Editor-in-Chief of TechAndTiny Senior Member

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    One quick observation: it is clear AMD is not giving Intel the best graphics solution they have to offer. As promised, AMD will be revealing much better APUs during the Q1 of next year See here how AMD's Ryzen 7 2700U compares with this new Intel custom design in graphics performance:

    AMD:
    [​IMG]

    Intel:
    [​IMG]
     
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  6. sonichedgehog360

    sonichedgehog360 Editor-in-Chief of TechAndTiny Senior Member

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    The results are in, and AMD's mobile Ryzen 5 2500U has cleared a huge win. It exhibits little to no throttling (<5%, whereas Intel shows up to 30% throttling in some cases), uses less power, has equal to superior CPU performance, and has vastly superior graphics performance. And all of this at a far cheaper price point, too: the HP Envy 15 x360 currently sells for around $600-$700.

    upload_2017-11-25_22-58-47.png

    upload_2017-11-25_22-52-44.png

    upload_2017-11-25_23-0-32.png

    upload_2017-11-25_23-1-8.png

    Source:
    https://www.notebookcheck.net/Our-f...Intel-has-every-reason-to-worry.266618.0.html
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2017
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  7. RT545

    RT545 Scribbler - Standard Member

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    In the server world (with high number of cores), while AMD ryzen "threadripper" 1950X is a powerful beast (with 180W TDP), what if we could find a 48 cores/2.5GHz CPU, capable to beat two twelve core skylake Intel XEONs put together (consuming at least 170W) and doing so while consuming only 120 watts on the paper, and only 89 watts in reality once tested?

    If you want to know the identity of this new champ, then follow this link :):

    https://hothardware.com/news/qualcomm-centriq-2400-cloudfare-benchmarks
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2017
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  8. Steve S

    Steve S Pen Pro - Senior Member Super Moderator

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  9. sonichedgehog360

    sonichedgehog360 Editor-in-Chief of TechAndTiny Senior Member

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    Last edited: Dec 31, 2017
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  10. Steve S

    Steve S Pen Pro - Senior Member Super Moderator

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