AES writing sample from BB TPY 14...

Discussion in 'Lenovo (IBM)' started by Steve B, Feb 12, 2016.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. mathartist

    mathartist Pen Pal - Newbie

    Messages:
    64
    Likes Received:
    13
    Trophy Points:
    16
    I could see cursive causing more of a problem, as I mentioned above, sometimes when I do a letter "c", or numeral "0" or "8", the curves end up with slightly bent "corners" instead of perfectly smooth curves. That is one slight annoyance I don't deal with on my Wacom EMR Thinkpad Tablet 10.
     
  2. DoctorBunsenHoneydew

    DoctorBunsenHoneydew Scribbler - Standard Member

    Messages:
    168
    Likes Received:
    23
    Trophy Points:
    31

    Seems the big difference is whether you primarily paint or write. Writing you're going to notice the tiniest accuracy resolution issue, whereas painting you're going to be particularly sensitive to pressure curve issues.

    Fwiw, I do art stuff only, and for me it's been every bit as good as a full-fat cintiq.
     
  3. Steve B

    Steve B Moderator Moderator

    Messages:
    3,407
    Likes Received:
    580
    Trophy Points:
    181
    I actually do both- writing and drawing. I could imagine "painting" would feel differently from linework (landscape design), which is what I end up doing for work, essentially. Detailed linework shows the wobbles and whatnot far more than painting would, and has a lot more in common with writing than painting does. As before, the pressure curve seems very nice. That's definitely improved from Ntrig results- no little "hooks" or chunky ramp up in pressure. It's mostly the other artifacts I'm talking about, when writing cursive.

    Yesterday I had some design work to do, so I tried re-installing the Wacom driver and making the pen a bit softer. I also tried pressing a bit harder, even the shorter lines. This might have helped some, it's hard to say, but more importantly I've also tried zooming in a bit more, which allows me to do slightly bigger, faster strokes even for detailed work. This seemed to help the most of all, because the AES pen tech really shines IMO when doing smooth, broad strokes, where the pressure curve can be seen, and the limitations of its detail accuracy is removed.
     
  4. Steve B

    Steve B Moderator Moderator

    Messages:
    3,407
    Likes Received:
    580
    Trophy Points:
    181
    While shopping at BB, I got to try out another model of the TPY 14 while there- the 20DM009GUS model, that comes with a 1 TB HDD, and has no slot for the pen. Lo and behold, the pen that I borrowed from another computer worked on it. Very interesting!

    Even more interesting was that the pen input on it was clearly smoother and less vectored/ chunky than what I've gotten on the other 14 models I tried out. I've been wondering why this is, and can't figure out what the difference would be, but there was a clear difference. I've tried three of the 002US models, and they all weren't as good as that other GUS model. I wonder if there's a driver difference, or what the issue is.... I'd love to duplicate the difference on the model I've already purchased.

    Couldn't believe that GUS model was going for 599$- it was a floor model that was additionally on sale for President's Day, but still. Dang! That's an awesome price.
     
  5. olevelo

    olevelo Pen Pal - Newbie

    Messages:
    33
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    15
    The Wacom Feel drivers aren't supposed to be used on this, unless they've been updated in the last few weeks. When I tried them I got some funky results. When I rolled back to the original drivers things were much better, and then even better when I updated through Lenovo.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  6. Steve B

    Steve B Moderator Moderator

    Messages:
    3,407
    Likes Received:
    580
    Trophy Points:
    181
    Anyone got any links they can share? I found the Wacom website not useful. I tried to use the Lenovo update program to update my drivers, but it said everything was fine. Perhaps I should visit their driver page for this model myself and look by hand... Though the truth is that navigating their website is also a PITA.

    I have to say, set up for Winfows devices is such a PITA. Sigh. Would be great to iron this wrinkle out though, if it's possible.
     
  7. Shogmaster

    Shogmaster Pen Pro - Senior Member Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,344
    Likes Received:
    1,566
    Trophy Points:
    231
    Dude, I explained this several times already in this forum. I even have a rambling youtube video on the subject. AES and other capacitive based active pens suffer from low digitizer resolution vs EMR.

    With EMR, you have anywhere from 500 lines per inch (Penabled) all the way up to 5000 lines per inch (Cintiq) of pen movement detection. AES has to rely on the pro cap digitizer grid for pen movement data so it's far lower. Thus aliasing of the pen movement is easier to see.

    Of all the pro cap based active pen devices, iPad Pro has the most dense digitizer grid, and even it suffers from noticeable diagonal line aliasing when you draw slowly. The best solution to combat the aliasing is to learn to draw quicker lines. Drawing very slowly is not a good habit for digital anyways.
     
  8. Steve B

    Steve B Moderator Moderator

    Messages:
    3,407
    Likes Received:
    580
    Trophy Points:
    181
    Oh, not to worry-- I'm not stupid. I wouldn't even describe myself as uninformed. I'm actually quite aware of the slow diagonal test, and the wobbly nature of it all. I even watched your videos. So, I'm sorry that you're frustrated by the experiences of others.

    Indeed, drawing faster in something like SBP helps with wobbliness, so thank you for that recommendation. I still find it a bit chunky and full of vectors in OneNote however. And no, it doesn't matter how fast I write.

    I'm not sure if you read my last post or not, as your don't respond it in your post, but what was odd was that all of the matching configurations had a similar writing experience, but a different model # of the current TPY 14 was better. A lot better. And reminded me a bit more of your video. That made me think that perhaps I had a setting wrong or a driver incorrectly installed.

    Perhaps it's nothing, and it's just the way it is- it's really basically good enough, all in all, and definitely better than Ntrig. I'm not sure. But I am a moderator here, and I do have a lot of experience with devices, so it's not like I'm uninformed. Give me a little credit. I'm just looking for input on a new device and tech.
     
  9. Shogmaster

    Shogmaster Pen Pro - Senior Member Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,344
    Likes Received:
    1,566
    Trophy Points:
    231
    Now you are making me feel bad for being my usual over-reacting self. Take all my joys away why don't ya?

    I can't imagine different models of Thinkpad Yoga 14 having different digitizers. As with most things when I get stuck figuring it out, I blame the Wacom driver. For instance, the new Wacom drivers broke all CS6 pen behavior in all my Wacom devices. The pressure sensitivity disappears every few strokes. I'm currently working on a tin foil hat theory that says Adobe paid off Wacom to make people move on to CC.

    Anyways, I do understand the frustration of those who make slow methodical marks. But it's easier for us to adapt to the hardware then keep butting our heads against the wall by not compensating for the hardware. Unfortunate but true. But this like everything else will in time improve. Just take a look at how far these devices have come in last 14 years.

    BTW I finally got that Toshiba 3505 I got from eBay working. Holy crap, that was a POS. Big sections of the screen doesn't register the pen anymore, which I learned is a common problem for 3505. That sucker had $2500 starting price. Now you can get something that destroys it in every aspect for $300 new.

    Give it time. The pro-cap digitizer resolution will get there.
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2016
  10. Steve B

    Steve B Moderator Moderator

    Messages:
    3,407
    Likes Received:
    580
    Trophy Points:
    181
    Fair enough. I sort of regretted posting that after I hit send, but you .... LOL... have a utterly frustrated "tone" sometimes. :p You're a teacher, right? My wife is too, so it may come from that. :D

    Anyways, it also made no sense to me that different models would work better or worse. I can only say it was true. I tried 3 different units and the pen was the same on all of them, but different on the GUS one, which doesn't come with a pen silo. Regardless, I'm not getting that unit, so I guess it doesn't matter. This damn unit is so nice, I'm not returning it.

    Your point that we need to adapt to the tech is valid, and probably the most useful point to make about all this. It's not that different than how people used to endlessly complain about cursor offset with EMR, which I thought was just overstated. I told 'em to just watch the cursor and not the pen tip. Not so different now re: the need for a bit of speed with my mark-making.

    As a side note-
    I'm using a glove, but find I'm still making a reasonable amount of accidental marks. Odd. I'm also trying to get TouchGuard to work, but it keeps cr*pping out in the middle of drawing sessions. Not sure why. I want some sort of Artdock option for the unit- simultaneous touch/ pen input, with the touchscreen turned off. Just for when I'm doing a lot of pen work. Have you found anything like that that's worked on the TPY 14?
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page