AES writing sample from BB TPY 14...

Discussion in 'Lenovo (IBM)' started by Steve B, Feb 12, 2016.

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  1. Steve B

    Steve B Moderator Moderator

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    I'm curious. I've got this device, and it was really highly touted for its writing. Having tested it for a few days, I would find it adequate at best. Its a bit better in a program like Sketchbook Pro, particularly if I move quickly and do circles, etc. No vectoring. But it's really pretty chunky if I work slowly or in Onenote. I've attached a sample. It just looks and feels like Ntrig, so I've been using Lazy Nezumi when drawing in SBP.

    I otherwise really like this device, but the pen has been disappointing. Is this normal for others? I have the Wacom driver installed. Should I not? Will it work better without it?

    I'm also experiencing, a little bit, a bit of cursor jump now and then when I'm using them pen. At first I thought it was because I was touching the screen with my hand, but it actually sometimes occurs when I'm just pointing the pen at the screen, but my hand isn't touching it.

    I'm trying to figure out what I should anticipate with this pen. Sadly, they never had a pen in store, so I was never able to test it before buying this unit. So, I have no point of reference. Looking for input.
     

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  2. senritsu01

    senritsu01 Pen Pal - Newbie

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    I had bought the thinkpad yoga 14 and I updated the drivers and download the driver for Wacom feel. (Around the time it came out, I have since returned it before the return was up)

    My experiences have been the same, I couldn't use it in Photoshop (maybe that's changed or I downloaded the wrong part.) it worked good in clip studio with stabization at 15 and unstable in sketchbook pro. Good in paint tool sai, the beta version.

    I liked
    The pressure curve.

    The bad
    Very low hover point. I constantly made marks with my palm.
    Jitter is worse then the surface 4
    Unusable in some apps.
    Hard tip.

    Is it better then n-trig. At least on this device, no. At least in my opinion.

    I have herd good things about elite x 2 pen so I bought one. It also supports the smart pen that has different nib option. We shall see if I like it. Only time will tell.
     
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  3. Steve B

    Steve B Moderator Moderator

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    Your description sounds about right to me.

    I could imagine it being fine in CSP with stabilization on a bit. It's fine in SBP with Lazy Nezumi, or if I only draw really quick. It's really pretty chunky in OneNote, where I don't have any stabilization available. I like the pressure curve, which is very nice. I don't mind that the hover distance is so low, as I just put on a glove- but if I was using the pen all day, I would be annoyed. It's all a bit surprising to me, considering how much Shog was going off about how awesome it was.

    I'll admit, I may keep the device anyways- I love it in almost every other respect, outside of wifi being a bit weak. Great sound quality, very nice big screen, good typing experience, quick and responsive, good trackpad. I don't use the pen daily, which makes it perhaps acceptable. I dunno. Other opinions and experiences?

    Why can't this just have EMR? Sigh. Then it would be perfect, whatever edge inacurracies it might have.
     
  4. senritsu01

    senritsu01 Pen Pal - Newbie

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    Oh yeah I saw his YouTube, he only used manga studio, and if that is the only program you use, then it's great.


    The laptop part was solid, as you said. I'm just disappointed with Wacom. I can't help but feel, with their experience, that they are holding back so that they won't lose sales on their cintiq. I hope I am wrong.
     
  5. mathartist

    mathartist Pen Pal - Newbie

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    Writing quality is surely subjective, it is not quite as responsive as EMR for sure but to me the 20FY Thinkpad Yoga is the best of the AES devices that I have tried. For reference, I could not use the Surface Pro 3 or 4 for handwriting no matter how many times I tried, the N-Trig feels stiff and unnatural to me, similar to the Lenovo Miix 700 (which is strangely supposed to be Wacom AES).

    That said, I do recall having a bit of a hard time quickly writing the letter "c" and the number "0" quickly at first, those quick small curves did not come out as smooth as they did on Wacom EMR. However I did learn to adjust and it doesn't really bother me anymore, but that is again subjective.

    I have also had a few instances of the cursor jumping to the bottom of the screen, but it has never "taken the ink with it", so to speak. Meaning it hasn't ever resulted in spikes of ink shooting up or down while actually writing. Not sure if your experience is different.

    My hover distance is around 3/8 to 1/2 an inch? On the Miix 700 it was more like 1mm.

    Senritsu01, to me the Elite X2 feels *very* similar to the Thinkpad Yoga 14 (20FY), almost identical in fact (so if the BB TP Yoga 14 is not up to par for you, not sure that the Elite X2 will be either). Interested in reading your impressions when you get yours.
     
  6. senritsu01

    senritsu01 Pen Pal - Newbie

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    I personally only use manga studio and sai so it was fine for me, I only mention other programs because I know many artists use them. The problem with tp14 was weight,if it weighs too much I just Leave it in the corner of my room until I feel the urge to draw. I like tablets better for portability. I loved the surface but it was the darn pressure curve. The outlines of my drawings where very, annoyingly inconsistent. I don't have that problem with Wacom aes. The other problems with Wacom can be fixed with stabization and a drawing glove. I do give the surface line credit. They have gotten better with every update so far.
     
  7. Shogmaster

    Shogmaster Pen Pro - Senior Member Senior Member

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    IMO it's the case of your hands being use to your particular device's pressure curve.

    I own 4 working EMR devices, and they all feel different, even with the same pen. And then you bring in the fact that a pen's pressure curve changes over time due to use (or abuse in some cases), and it's all over the place even within EMR.

    IMO, you will simply adjust to the new pen's pressure curve over time, if you stick with it. And then IT will become the norm for you, and anything else will feel strange.

    As for Photoshop and AES, there is definitely something funky going on. I'm going the blame the Wacom driver for now. I'm about to switch to CC so maybe it will improve over CS6 pen behavior with AES.
     
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  8. Steve B

    Steve B Moderator Moderator

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    I don't know- I actually like the pressure curve. That's not the issue. If you look at te sample I uploaded, you can see a lot of chunky wobbling. That doesn't seem to have much to do with the pressure curve. And vectoring isn't really an issue either- broad smooth hand movements are recorded very well. It's really when doing handwriting or small detail work that the issue is exacerbated.

    If wobbly inaccuracies when drawing slower were remedied by changing my relationship to the pressure curve, I could have just gotten used to Ntrig, and it would have started producing better results. That was never the case. Should I be pressing harder or something, when do detail work? Does that remedy the issues in my sample?

    Are people saying that when they draw slowly or do handwriting, it doesn't look like mine? Or it looks like what I posted but you've gotten used to it? Can someone else share their results? Either with handwriting or detail work?
     
  9. mathartist

    mathartist Pen Pal - Newbie

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    Here's a sample, BB TPY (20FY) both with and without pressure sensitivity (and on actual paper).

    http://imgur.com/dJiJY2J
     
  10. Steve B

    Steve B Moderator Moderator

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    Yours definitely does look better than my sample- though i wonder if thats because you print and i do cursive. i tried printing, and it looks better. I just prefer cursive. Still, the difference is enough i may take my pen and try it out at a BB on a different unit. The one i bought had been a floor model- who knows if it was abused a bit. I doubt it, but I might check anyways.

    edit-
    i noticed you were using Journal, and so i tried it. Journal seems to work better for pen input than Desktop OneNote does- it just lacks so much else... even the ability to pan or zoom with touch. I wonder if the Modern version of OneNote is better for inking....

    edit #2-
    Nope. App version had a similar experience. I did try re-installing the Wacom Feel-It Driver. That works with this, right? I made the pen softer, and I wondered if that helped a bit....

    Also, does the screen get hot for other people??? Mine gets pretty warm, down by the Start Button. Seemed odd to me, as I figured it doesn't have the CPU behind the screen.
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2016
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