13"

Discussion in 'Hewlett Packard' started by kurt corbin, Sep 30, 2019.

  1. lovelaptops

    lovelaptops My friends call me Jeff Senior Member

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    I will soon place an order (from HP.com) for the following:
    -- Spectre x360 13
    -- i7 Ice Lake cpu
    -- 16GB RAM/512GB (or 1TB) SSD
    -- FHD display (concession, not choice - to get LTE)
    -- LTE

    I think it will cost about $1,200. That's an awfully fine piece of kit for that price. Closing comments?

    (Anyone interested in providing me an effective $300 (obo) discount by buying my mint condition, little used Surface Book 13 with 6th gen i5, (weak) discrete nVidia gpu, 8gb/256gb for around $300 with MS pen? That has to be the best $300 (or less) one could spend for an extremely competent device with a wonderful screen, impeccable design/construction and rock stable (W10 updates dependent!) performance! At that price, I should be a buyer (keeper?) rather than seller, but @Steve S has inspired me to lighten up on last gen TPCs.)
     
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  2. Marty

    Marty Pen Pro - Senior Member Senior Member

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    Anyone OLED model owners notice the moire pattern on the screen reported over at NotebookReview:

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Since it's claimed to be caused by the digitizer grid, it may also be visible on the IPS variant as well, so maybe @lovelaptops you could look for this too when you get your unit in.

    Personally I'm surprised by this, as I thought modern metal mesh digitizer feature sizes had long surpassed the threshold of naked eye visibility.

    @MobileTechReview @desertlap Did HP mention if they were using a different manufacturing process on the screen touch layer? Maybe it's related to the extra jitter compared to other N-Trig digitizers?
     
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  3. desertlap

    desertlap Scribbler - Standard Member Senior Member

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    @Marty, a couple of observations on the digitizer part of the display.

    Looking at my own unit this morning I can see it under what I would consider abnormal/unusual usage scenarios e.g the screen 90% black with and external light source directly facing it a ~20% angle you can see the mesh if you look really close.

    Slightly more noticeable is if you have a~95% white screen and the brightness is set to maximum at extremely close viewing distances (i.e as you might do when doing a pixel level edit of a photo) there is what they call in TV forums a "dirty screen effect". Of course TVs normally don't have digitizers, but the look is similar. Again it's not something that most would notice in normal use and neither I or my wife observed it but my eagle eyed early twenties aged daughter did.

    As to why for all this, I haven't gotten confirmation from HP but visually the digitizer is closer to the glass of the display than other recent models. I'm speculating that this is a by-product of the extra small bezels and overall thinness of the display (you still have to put the needed hardware somewhere).

    And I have some bad news for those that might be bothered by this (I'm not BTW) but you can observe it on the 1080p screen as well. Further proof I think that it's a function of the physical aspects of the display.

    One more observation: I've said it before, but putting an LCD or OLED in something as small as a laptop or even more so in phone is a huge engineering challenge and you can see any number of "issues" if you go looking on pretty much any display. e,g. using the same first scenario above I can see the grid pattern of the digitizer on my iPad Pro 11 or I can see a slight variation in screen brightness on the Note 10 + I have sitting next to me this morning.
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2019
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  4. kurt corbin

    kurt corbin Scribbler - Standard Member

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    Sorry if this is a stupid question, but which digitizer are you referring to, the pen or the touch? Or does Micro soft have them integrated?
     
  5. desertlap

    desertlap Scribbler - Standard Member Senior Member

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    Not 100% certain as things can change with newer devices, but in device manager the Elan touch controller is listed.

    If it's like previous HP designs, the pen control and touch are in the same physical structure.
     
  6. kurt corbin

    kurt corbin Scribbler - Standard Member

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    Hasn't HP tried Wacom, Synaptics, and Micro soft capacitive pen digitizers? Anyway, the one in yours uses the tech Micro soft got from N-Trig and developed further, right? But some other companies might license the tech and actually make and sell the digitizers, right?

    Anyway, I'm trying to figure out how the pen and touch digitizers are integrated into the same physical structure, since it supposed to be an active digitizer for touch and a passive digitizer for an active pen, right? That may be great engineering, except when it isn't. I personally don't care for touch, and I'd rather avoid any possible complications by just not having it. So of Micro soft, Wacom, and Synaptics, does anybody know which, if any of them, do not integrate the pen and touch digitizers into one part so that a person could get a pen-and-no-touch display? Am I the only one? Does Wacom even still make displays with resonance digitizers only?
     
  7. Marty

    Marty Pen Pro - Senior Member Senior Member

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    I think its probably an optical interference effect with high density pixel array then. Did you happen to notice this on the old x360 15" OLED models?
     
  8. kurt corbin

    kurt corbin Scribbler - Standard Member

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    Maybe this is a problem Samsung could not solve and the reason they sell the OLED panels without touch.

    "...we've learned from industry sources that the main (and possibly only) OLED panel being used for 15-inch laptops is the Samsung SDCA029. This 15.6-inch, 16:9, 3840 x 2160 pixel (4k/UHD), glossy, non-touch display is going to be showing up on likely every laptop offering an OLED option through this year and into the next..."

    https://www.notebookcheck.net/Looki...ar-Here-s-what-you-need-to-know.426808.0.html
     
  9. lovelaptops

    lovelaptops My friends call me Jeff Senior Member

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    At present, on hp.com I cannot configure a Spectre x360 - 13t to include WWAN. Any suggestions?

    EDIT: Figured it out -

    1) Need to spec the i7/16GB for WWAN - adds $140 to price, but the Intel 7560 LTE WWAN card automatically spec'd in for no "additional" cost (other than the higher price for the motherboard
    2) Turns out, you have to spec the "Nightfall Black" (dark brown with rose gold edges) color; why didn't I think of that! <duh>

    Total is $1,389 for 1080p/i7/16GB/1TB (non-optane)/WWAN. This is supposedly with a $300 discount from HP. For $110 more could get OLED but can't get WWAN w/OLED. Given the small size (zero bezel, 10-hr batt life and LTE, makes it a traveler's dream. I've had several 4K 13.3" screen laptops and, honestly, in everyday use you don't notice it. Sure, for hi-def photos and 4K HDR movies, significant differences, but not my use case for this machine. Been a long time coming, time to do it!
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2019
  10. kurt corbin

    kurt corbin Scribbler - Standard Member

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    But it looks like both Micro soft and Wacom capacitance digitizer tech...

    ...and nobody has ever bothered making pen-only capacitance digitizers. So now I am wondering who supplies these dual purpose digitizers and whether the same part will work for Microsoft, Wacom, and Synaptics pen protocols. Maybe it would just need a different controller of firmware or something. Also, who makes these digitizers, and do they have SKU numbers the way panels do?

    If we could ID the digitizer and compare other OLED displays with the same part, then we could determine whether the problem is HP's workmanship.
     
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2019

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