Photoshop toolbar

[lblb]

Oh, yeah, you're right: obviously we need the number on the main icon otherwise you won't know which one is selected when you go for another tool. Should've thought of that.
The rest also makes complete sense. It is indeed the way it works right now so it should be pretty straightforward to just adapt it for a fourth button.

I've been working on improving the routines to close/open files (such as the right-click pan, the hover icons and the X close buttons) and it all seems to work correctly now. That has also allowed me to successfully come up with the separate window where you can turn on or off the hover/pan/X buttons. (That window wasn't a priority but it forced me to come up with reliable close routines, which was a priority!) Seems to be working as planned. I'll just add it to the main menu.

[Steve B]

Sounds cool. Is this pop-up window sort of the beginning of your idea about having a "setup" window to move things around, change shortcut keys for buttons, etc, that sort of stuff?

[lblb]

(Wow! Already on page 25!)

Indeed it is. I basically see two kinds of options that could be set up there:
1) Change the set up for the current session (i.e. disable pan, change transparency of the toolbar, disable hover and put an X on this particular Sai window, etc.). These changes would revert back to default when you retsart the toolbar.
2) Change default startup options (would necessitate a toolbar restart). This option would probably fit better with something like changing hotkeys, but you could also, for example, have hover icons by default for one window and have the other three with X close buttons, or change some values in Sai's misc.ini, etc.

For the second option, I have a good idea how I can do most of it, but it will first necessitate that we get to a toolbar to which we are not constantly making drastic changes (and also require that I learn a few AHK tricks!).

On a related note: We have introduced so many "advanced" functions that I find it hard right now to see how an interface where a user could add/delete buttons could be developed. When it's just a matter of determining what key press a button sends, that's easy. But when so many functions are intertwined (for example, the straight lines, the tool switches, etc.), user-customization may just not be something that will be implementable.
But we're not there yet... and I still have a lot to think about on this...

[Steve B]

I was thinking just being able to change key commands, but that may not be necessary if we could lay out what they all are by #. Then the user could do it on the other end.

BTW, can we do a Hover Icon for the AHK Layers Subpanel in Artrage? That would be very useful, because I could expand the functionality (and potentially the size) of it, without taking up a bunch of space. If not, then I might try and make some of these things be Stroke It commands. It would be very cool and useful thought to be able to 1) easily move the Layers Subpanel around by grabbing its header, and then 2) having it be a Hover Icon, so it would be very innocuous when not in use. I could then do all sorts of quick commands and scripts made into buttons that we could put in it. ???

I'm coming up with a number of things for the main AHK panel for Artrage as well, as I'm using it more again and discovering better what it can do. I'll try and do a mockup of it as well. First things first though, in regards to the Hover Icon/Layers Subpanel issue.

[lblb]

I haven't tried yet it but I would say that having a AHK toolbar as a hover icon should work just as well (not promising anything though!). So I think you can go right ahead and plan for a layout for a "hoverable" AHK layer panel in Art Rage. Also: have you thought about better icons for that layers panel? Now going back to the Art Rage toolbar, it still seems to me that the current ones aren't very good.

[Steve B]

I've been thinking of something with a square or a freeform area with faux marching ants. For Select Layer Contents it'd be colored something like blue on the inside. For invert it'd be the same shape but colored outside the selection. For Clear Selection, I was thinking something like the Select Layer Contents, but with an X or a slash over it.

[lblb]

Just passing by quickly:

I just saw that someone posted (a while ago) a script for a grid in Art Rage (Grid script: ArtRage Studio and Studio Pro. - ArtRage Forums). Works well (although there aren't many options). I hadn't thought about using scripts to insert "programmable" layers this way but maybe this kind of script could be useful for other things...

[Steve B]

Exactomundo baby.

Hit a button for rich texture new layer, and a script starts that makes a new layer, sets it to Multiply, changes the Layer Texture, and sets it to the appropriate settings. That's good news! Same might go for a light texture as well. I only use a few repeatedly for watercolor work.

I also think some wy to open the Settings and Preset Panels would be very helpful. If there can't be Hover Icons, then we need some sort of pair of small buttons for this, to toggle them open and closed. I'm also thinking about the commands for the expanded Layers Subpanel- a lock transparency button, a merge layer button, etc. I'm also thinking it would be good to shrink the buttons- make them all 33 pixels wide, and make 3 rows under the Main Header. I'd like to keep the Main Header basically the same between te programs, and let the other parts chane as need be. Do you think we'll be able to easily move the Layers Subpanel around? The method you currently have setup is ok, but a bit complicated. It would be nice to have it function more like the windows do in Sai- just grab a narrow small "window" at the top of the subpanel and it automatically moves. Clearly I need to get to the mockup.

I'm also knocking around real details for SBP, so I'll try and do a mockup for that. SBP 2011 is nice and has good features, but it's still slower than I want it to be on my computer. Im only using it when I need something specific it has. Otherwise, I keep wanting to revert to 2010, which is blazingly responsive. The issue is t doesn't have the awesome setup 2011 has, where you Hover Right-click and it pulls up the lagoon with 6 commands at the tip of your pen. An awesome setup. Sigh. So, I'm looking to get some right-click and left-click functionality in it if we can for things like Pan or Lasso, and to start a more straight forward AHK setup for it for the most needed commands. I don't do much layer work or color work in it, so it's really about sketching, zooming, panning, lasso work, etc. Have you ever used SBP? Do you know if we can geek AHK to recognize right-click to Pan in it?

Though I suppose first is to get the Sai stuff done and the Artrge mockup up and running.

[lblb]

Steve, that whole script idea has got my brain going! They now seem way cooler than I initially thought! I guess it's because the only two other scripts I had downloaded were just programmed brushstrokes (kind of like a movie of someone drawing something) and I hadn't realized that they can be used for way different tasks. I can see now why you are interested! Also makes me wonder why it is that this feature was just recently added, and why it's not present (to my very limited knowledge) with other drawing programs. I guess it's again part of that litany of issues (like what you just mentioned about SBP) you and thatcomicsguy have discussed here and elsewhere about there not being a single software that includes all the most useful functions.

Unfortunately I've been constantly thrown off during the last month or so by how much the end of the semester is keeping me busy... at the very least, in two weeks the semester is over! Then I'll have much more time to work on this. But it's really good that you are thinking about all these things for Sai, ArtRage and now SBP. Just keep on sharing your ideas, it really helps me when planning stuff out. I've never used SBP before but I think I'll wait a bit as the trial version is only 15 days. Is there a keyboard key that you can hold down while dragging the pen to pan the canvas?

In the next few days, I want to get the new Sai layout finished (again, every time I think I'm going to have time, something with my students springs up!) and then go for the ArtRage one. Since I haven't had time to go back to ArtRage yet, I think for now we can assume the following:
- having hovering icons for AHK subtoolbars should be possible (and each subtoolbar can be moved easily like the main toolbar, no need for the pin/unpin thing)
- having hovering icons for native Art Rage windows may be very difficult, and may even be impossible (I have a few ideas that could potentially work, but it definitely won't be as easy as in Sai)
- it will still be possible to call up the different Art Rage windows by using hotkeys like we are doing right now (and since there are hotkeys for the Settings and Presets panels, adding these buttons shouldn't be a problem)

[lblb]

I'm almost done with the Sai toolbar (actually, I am done but there is one bug that I can't trace right now that makes it unusable... now I know what programming is about!)

Just to let you know that I just confirmed that it's as straightforward as it was for Sai's panels to get hover icons for AHK toolbars.