Photoshop CS4 vs CS5 speed comparison - video

[thatcomicsguy]

@Agent 9:

Thanks for all the info.

Looks like some overdue house-cleaning might be in order. -Picking up a copy of Win7 for starters. Then an SSD.

I just ran a hard drive benchmark test using CrystalDiskMark, and compared to the common Crucial M4 SSD benchmarks as seen on other machines, the little Toshiba drive which came with my computer is very, very slow. I didn't realize SSDs were quite *that* fast. The last time I was paying attention to SSDs was about four years ago, and the state of the technology wasn't as impressive as it appears today. Four years is a long time in the computer world!

I find it very encouraging to think that old hardware like the Tecra can be given a significant performance boost simply by updating the OS and getting a modern hard drive. It's handy that the Tecra M4 came equipped native with SATA; even if it's SATA-1, it still looks like it should offer something like a 500% performance boost for many disk read/write tasks.

I'm thinking that the various slow-downs I was experiencing both in Photoshop CS4 and CS5 might have been related to saving history states.

Cool. This is quite exciting, actually!

[Agent 9]

for quick reference these are the benchmarks for the Crucial SSD:
On my SATA II desktop:


On the Toshiba M4 (which is SATA I):


I am still tweaking it and seeing what it can do but I am thoroughly impressed with it sofar, between the SSD and the capability of the newest Nvidia driver (using a modified info file so it installs correctly, it does well in Win 7 in any orientation but in XP it doesn't work in any mode other than primary landscape correctly) and setting the visual style for Win 7 to the "windows classic"to reduce resource use, the thing just flies!

[thatcomicsguy]

Ha ha!

Here's the speed of the original 60Gig stock Toshiba hard drive in my Tecra M4. . .



What a difference!

[skulpt]

Ok. Since this thread has become the M4 thread..... I'm liking what I'm hearing...

1) How hard is it to get Windows 7 up and running with all the drivers needed?

2) What Crucial SSD specifically are you using?

3) How do the viewing angles compare to your old Tm2 and your 2730p?

I don't need a light notebook with great battery life. As long as it's running Photoshop CS5 well with your setup, I'm good with the other potential issues this laptop has.

[Agent 9]

1) get a windows 7 DVD (either legally from online/ a local store; or if you are so inclined not-so-legally), put it in the DVD drive, boot it up, format the drive (be it SSD or HDD), install the OS

-Install a set of drivers, some from Toshiba's site, some from elsewhere (I got most of the drivers I needed from Toshiba's driver page for the M4 [Wi-Fi, pointerstick/ trackpad, tablet buttons, Sound driver, HDD protection sensor driver, and Bluetooth -the last one doesn't work, I think, butr I haven't played around with it, and don't have ant BT devices); but the Wacom driver and the Video driver came from Wacom and Nvidia respectively -the Nvidia driver using a modified file so it sees the card and installs the latest driver)

2) I am using the Crucial M4 64GB (I got it from Microcenter for $114)... the only issue I ran across is sleep mode doesn't work properly on the Toshiba M4 now (it will begin to go to sleep, but the system never powers off entirely. IDK if this is a issue with the SSD, or a driver conflict with this install, but sleep was working on the old HDD with a install of Win 7 Ultimate)
For me Sleeping the system is a non-issue because I don't do it on the M4 as the battery is actually very work on my unit so it wouldn't be reliable; thus I use Hibernate... though any 2.5" SSD should work in the M4, I would recommend a Intel drive if you can get one at a good price

3) overall rating Tm2<Toshiba M4<2730p in terms of viewing angles... in terms of my favorite screen Tm2<2730p<M4, but there are some little things about each...
-The M4's screen is BIG, slightly larger than a regular sheet of 8.5" x 11", and it has a resolution that is slightly denser than the 2730p's, the colors and clarity on the Toshiba M4 are the best among the three (vibrant reds, rich greens and blues) the viewing angles are actually pretty good (I took an extensive set of photos with the 2730p and M4: outdoors, indoors, with text backgrounds and with color/ Gama charts, and even with the M4's plastic cover off so you can see what its bare screen looks like. you can see it here HP 2730p vs Toshiba M4 screen - a set on Flickr ), the only area where the screen is lacking is brightness and contrast a little bit (it is about half to two thirds as bright as the 2730p's screen; without the ugly plastic screen shield on the M4 it gains significantly more brightness)
-The 2730p has a AFFS+ screen, its viewing angles, contrast, brightness and outdoor usability are absolutely superb, but it lacks a bit of color depth (as most any screen of the past few years does) I have a set of photos showing its outdoor usability here HP 2730p AFFS+ screen outdoors - a set on Flickr

some other points that are good to know about each:
-if you plan on using polarized glasses with either unit, you will see some issues: the 2730p's AFFS+ screen will become almost completely black when in portrait mode (it must be because of the way the light is directional); and while the M4 does not have that, you will notice a shimmer from the plastic protective layer (because plastic seen through polarized lenses has that optical quality)
-The Wacom accuracy on the 2730p isn't that great (but neither is almost any recent/ new Tablet PC other than the Fujitsu's, AFAIK), but the M4 is pretty much spot on anywhere and everywhere (except for the very tip of each corner on the screen where it becomes loose at tracking). If you are using it for art, this is a huge deal because on top of a massive canvas, it is as accurate as can be
-The M4 is OLD, it is running a Pentium M "Dothan" processor which is decent at most things, but you can forget extremely strenuousness tasks, or heavy multi-tasking (but any art programs should be good even if it has large files -as long as it isn't heavy 3d art). "Old" also means that it will be well used and likely have a few issues like a sorta loose hinge (should be fixable with just tightening the hinge up a bit), and it does feel a little outdated at times... but old also means that it will be cheap, you are looking at $170-180 max for the unit itself, and about $100 for the SSD (assuming you are getting a 64GB)
-The M4 not only has a big screen, it is a big computer, about the size of a 15" 4:3 notebook and is about 1.5" thick; while the 2730p is more of a ultra portable size and is 1" thick. the weight and thickness is similar for each if the 2730p has the slice battery of slim dock attached, but if it is the 2730p alone then the 2730p seems considerably smaller and lighter (but its small and kinda inaccurate screen make it not that great even if it is small, and the weight isn't that much concern to begin with -all of the 12.1" 16:10 Tablet PC's seem to have similar edge sensitivity issue, as well as the same screen size which kinda sucks if it is your only device)

So if you are getting the M4 as a possible 'one and only' machine it may be better to look elsewhere; but if you want to try it out and see how it is, or if you are thinking about a faster/ newer unit in addition to the M4 and then use the M4 as a large around the house device for digital drawing and the like then I suspect it would do quite well. It is better than most people would think, but it has a few issues (like needing a quick mod for the GPU fan to run off 5V internal so it keeps it cool, plus it has pretty short battery life at 2:50 when it was new, but it is likely to get about half of that with only one worn battery -though you can have a 2nd battery, 2nd HDD/ SSD, or a DVD drive in the "select bay")


Another option is to get a more recent 13.3" Tablet PC like the Fujitsu T5010 (maybe $500-600 from ebay. It has a 13.3" 16:10 AFFS+ screen that is slightly brighter than the one in my 2730p; they even come with Wacom Pen only, or Wacom Pen + touch enabled screens; it should also have better battery life, and slightly better quality all around -though after using the M4 for a while and knowing the 13.3" Fujitsu design I have to say their designs are nearly identical, which is just very surprising to me)

I can go into further detail of some other aspects, or I can take more photos of something specific, feel free to ask!

[skulpt]

Just awesome reply. Thanks. I'm actually not a huge lover of big time contrast and brightness. I usually tone it down a bit to make sure I can see shadow detail and highlight details. Color is more important to me, so the M4 sounds great. With most newer displays I have (TVs, smart phone, laptop), I usually keep the brightness down to about 60%.

Man, those Flickr shots really show how much more real estate the M4 has. Couple that with more resolution and the much nicer colors (shown in your photos again), Why couldn't Toshiba keep this line of computers alive?

Just a few more questions if you don't mind. I'm sure I will think of more yet.

1) Do I need a full version of Windows 7 or can I use an upgrade option? I've never upgraded an OS. Just got what came with the computer.

2) Is there any point to 64 bit considering the max ram is 2gb? Are there other aspects 64 bit Windows takes advantage of?

3) I've also never had Photoshop installed on 2 machines. Is there a problem with running on two systems registration wise? Will it only allow 1 installation?

4) Between the 2730p and the M4 the way you have them spec'd out, which one runs smoother? In other words, does the 2730p with the 8gb run circles around the 2gb limited M4? Or does having a dedicated graphics card make up for that in some areas?

[Agent 9]

Glad the reply helped; it isn't a perfect computer, but it is pretty darn close in my opinion

I think Toshiba continued their Tablet PC's until last year and then they kinda stopped. they have made a few other 14" Tablet PC's other than the M4, but those others are all widescreen 16:10 (so they lose a bit of vertical pixels, which translates into less pixels horizontally in portrait mode), though they do have slightly newer processors and all around newer, so maybe they are worth a look: you can find most all Tablet PC's listed here Comparison of tablet PCs - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia just scroll down the list and you will see the large screened Tablet PC's

1) I think you will need a full copy of Windows 7, though you may be able to use a upgrade disc if it has a legitimant copy of XP or Vista running on the system (shouldn't be too hard as it should have the Windows XP COA sticker on the bottom -unless it was removed prior to you buying it. if it is there then you can just grab a install disc for Win XP Tablet Edition from the net, use the serial on the bottom and presto fully legal Win XP. then all that is left is getting and using a Win 7 upgrade disc)... I have never done this before, so IDK if there really is a upgrade disc from XP to Win 7, but if there is that is what you would do. If there is only a Win 7 disc at full price then there is no need to install XP first, just put the Win 7 disc in and install

2) The system will not run/ install X64 (64-bit) OS or software, this is one of the issues that falls under the M4 being 'old' because the Pentium M it uses is only capable of X86 (32-bit), and the rest of the motherboard limits it to only 2GB of ram (though one of these days I need to get around to seeing if it will recognize more or not, I haven't actually tried it yet)... so it would be the 32-bit version, but any Windows 7 install media should have both a X64 and X86 installer built into it, plus the windows key on the disc can be used for either X86 or X64 so if you later decide to get another machine and want to use the serial on that instead of the M4 then you can

3) You can use Photoshop on 2 different computers with 1 purchase of it. read this to understand more about why How Many Computers Can You Install or Run Adobe CS5.5 On? | ProDesignTools

4) good question! Honestly I haven't yet seen too much of a difference between the two in terms of performance, I guess when you get in the groove of things you just don't notice the minute things... I mean, sure the 2730p is a beast, but with the 2D digital art I am doing on the system neither system seems to get too bogged down (no 100 layer, several thousand pixel massive canvases for me, well not yet anyways); that said, if you are working with a massive image/ canvas you would see a decent difference, but not quite night and day (something like 10,000+ pixels in either dimension, with a large brush [50+ pixel width] and full smoothing on the brush then a system like the 2730p will be lagging behind by less, but that kind of use is usually not common, and the difference isn't too massive)...

To get the most speed out of any Tablet PC when drawing be sure to disable "Flicks" from Windows 7, disable 'Press and hold to right click' as well as 'Use the Pen button as right click' under the Windows "Pen and Touch" settings -you can still assign the button to right click in the Wacom preference utility, but it will only work in art programs then -but it does a lot to speed things up. Doing this will enable you to scribble really fast when on a large canvas with a large brush that has full smoothing, or at least speed up doing so. as long as the image isn't too big there should be almost non-existant to barely noticable lag

I do notice the things like the 2730p having a tiny by comparison screen with lackluster colors (the reds are really bad, a 'bright red' looks almost blood red; I guess you give some you take some with having good viewing angles) as well as the awesome accuracy on the M4 comparatively



Though I never bought the M4 to be used as a convertible Tablet PC I am still quite impressed with how well put together it is (they even designed it so there is a small spare Wacom pen in the battery compartment, neat!). In case you are interested or if you didn't see it this is what I am doing with the M4 hopefully soon Slate Conversions for Convertible Tablet PC's


Oh, and one more thing, because the M4 is big and kinda heavy I would recommend getting/ making some kind of laptop stand and using it in tablet mode on it because it can really wear you down to hold it up or to deal with a stop-gap solution that doesn't quite work, plus it is far more enjoyable to use. Currently I am using a little stand I made out of K-nex (lol @ me), but eventually I want to get something a little more 'professional'
look at this thread to get some ideas, or share yours How to use a tablet comfortably?

[skulpt]

Ah, very good to know. Great work on the tablet mod idea BTW.

Do you know anything more about the M7? I realize that the 16:10 is gone, but this guy can be upgraded to 4gb, comes with a 256mb Quadro GPU, a dual core. Not sure if I'm right on this, but I think this can be 64 bit as well. Thought I found some W7 64 bit drivers for the M7.

It's kind of weird. I can't find much on the M7. Nothing showing anything on Youtube, which is what I usually like checking to see how it looks screen wise in action. There are reviews, but only one comparing to the M4, and not addressing what I wanted. Maybe this was a limited run model.

[Agent 9]

I was looking at the M7 for a little bit, but I wanted a pretty much perfectly paper sized screen (because of the mod I am planned for it); but If I had been looking for a solo machine, or one to leave as is and use it as a convertible Tablet PC I almost certainly would have chosen the M7 as it is more current (so the design doesn't feel as old, the screen should be a little nicer and if nothing else less yellowed because of age of the CCFL bulb, and it should run a little bit better for what that's worth; plus it was seeing a M7 that got me started on the Tablet PC form factor)... you also don't have to deal with modifying the GPU fan to run (because on the M4 is pretty much never turns on, which can result in a burnt out GPU if it is used a lot without the mod), and a few other small things that mostly relate to drivers and such, and the limitation to 2GB isn't great for the M4 (the M7 does seem to go up to 4GB, I.m not quite sure if it can go full 64-bit or not though 32-bit can use ~3.5GB of the 4GB, so 64-bit would only gain you maybe 512MB more usable ram (but the 32-64 bit thing will depend on the processor it has, if the particular unit you are looking at uses the older Core Duo I don't think it will, but if it uses the newer Core 2 Duo it should support 64-bit OS and software -both were used in the M7, as well as different GPU options, I think either the Nvidia Quadro or the weak Intel GPU of the time -don't quote me on that)

There seem to be 2 M7's at a reasonable price on the US ebay site at this time, one from a person selling their computer at a auction type deal starting at $160, the other looks to be a laptop re-seller selling it as a buy-it now for $275...

I would go for the M7 if you can, it is all around better designed and built, it needs less maintainence and tweaks to get it running very well, plus the M4 is pretty much the same price for a M7 as a M4 if you are buying from the main re-sellers of M4's on ebay (usually that re-seller charges $170-190 for a M4, though you can get more beat up/ incomplete models for far cheaper... usually M4's from ebay seem to have have dead or chinese batteries, as well as chinese replacement power bricks; I know mine does! Mine also had a decent sized scratch in the screen, but it has disappeared since the first few days of use, so take the reports of cosmetic damage seriously, but also with a grain of salt!)

[skulpt]

AH, good to hear something about the M7 screen. None of the reviews compared it to the M4. As long as it's about as good, I'm fine with that.

I probably would actually more seriously think about getting the HP 2730p, but the M7s and M4s are such great prices. I just love the idea of 8gb ram upgrades and the wider screen viewing. But I would be using this tablet mostly on my desktop probably, so the extra size would be nice.

So how do you think those Chinese batteries work out battery life wise? Is it better to get a new rip off battery vs an original one that has lost some charge to it?

Also, do you know anything about OEM Windows 7? The prices are about 40% cheaper. I think I heard that these versions are locked to the motherboard once you install them. Not sure if that's true.