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  1. #81
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    Default Re: HP Spectre X2

    Quote Originally Posted by nick_white View Post
    I'm mostly worried about the connection part of the tablet to the keyboard - if it's wobbly and it might pose problems in time.

    The Envy x2 has a problem with the audio jack in the dock - it's volume is way lower than the tablet jack. Does this apply to the Spectre too?

    Anyone using it as a tablet? Is it (subjectively) usable on desktop (not in Metro apps)? Especially with apps that don't scale well (Skype, Chrome for example).
    How about using it with a capacitive stylus?

    Thanks.
    Any updates?

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    Default Re: HP Spectre X2

    Quote Originally Posted by TABLETBOOKPC_HYBRIDS View Post
    I
    The Split x2 ultrabook is the same pc as the Spectre x2 except a different color (aluminum silver vs brown tablet back for the Spectre X2), where it differs is that the keyboard dock for the Split x2 has a larger battery (3 cell like the tablet while the Spectre has a smaller 2 cell battery to make it lighter & thinner without the sdcard slot or additional hard drive options of the Split x2 but the Spectre does have a backlit keyboard if that's important to you).
    Quick question: any chance the split has a different type of hardware connection? I think the spectre ultrabooks use an M.2 connection, but I think the spectre x2 convertibles use mSata. What does the split use?

    I'd really like to find a convertible that uses a M.2 PCIe, but I doubt that is going to happen.

  3. #83
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    Default Re: HP Spectre X2

    Quote Originally Posted by Zukem View Post
    Quick question: any chance the split has a different type of hardware connection? I think the spectre ultrabooks use an M.2 connection, but I think the spectre x2 convertibles use mSata. What does the split use?
    I'd really like to find a convertible that uses a M.2 PCIe, but I doubt that is going to happen.
    They call it mSSD for the Tablet: http://h10032.www1.hp.com/ctg/Manual/c03957651.pdf (HP Maintenance Guide - PDF). Page 40 Chapter 4

    128GB mSSD, PID 689953-001, from HP (OEM) is available for ~$180 http://www.amazon.com/HP-689953-001-.../dp/B008H66L70

    Keyboard dock has still SATA connector for SSD/HD with 2,5" form factor

    I guess it's a common mSATA interface

  4. #84
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    Lightbulb Re: HP Spectre X2

    Quote Originally Posted by Zukem View Post
    Quick question: any chance the split has a different type of hardware connection? I think the spectre ultrabooks use an M.2 connection, but I think the spectre x2 convertibles use mSata. What does the split use?

    I'd really like to find a convertible that uses a M.2 PCIe, but I doubt that is going to happen.
    Why are you a busy mobile media professional?

    Both HP Split 13t-g100 x2 PC & Spectre x2 ( Manuals for HP Spectre 13t-h200 CTO x2 PC | HP® Support ) are listed on pg 9 of http://h10032.www1.hp.com/ctg/Manual/c03957651.pdf under storage with :

    "Tablet: Support for the following mSATA3 solid-state drives:
    ● 128-MB EM (MLC mSATA)
    ● 128-MB
    ● 64-MB
    Keyboard base (HP Split x2): Optional support for a 5.0-mm (0.2 in), 500-GB, 5400-rpm, SATA hard drive"

    The Manuals for HP Spectre 13t-3000 CTO Ultrabook | HP® Support does list on pg 9 of http://h10032.www1.hp.com/ctg/Manual/c04055643.pdf under Solid-state drive with:

    "Single M.2 SSD Configuration as storage
    Supports the following SSDs:
    ● 512-GB
    ● 256-GB
    ● 128-GB"

    Despite this according to limited tests in reviews however the Spectre data rates are not significantly different than the Spectre x2 & as Toshiba HG5D Series SATA M.2 SSD Review (512GB) - Amazing Performance in a SATA M.2 SSD | The SSD Review mentions "we have reviewed one of each with the ADATA AXNS360E 128GB SATA M.2 SSD reaching speeds of 550MB/s while the Samsung XP941 512GB PCIe M.2 SSD more than doubled that at 1.2GB/s. The important thing for all to remember is that, regardless of the speed, the typical user will never be able to visibly observe any difference whatsoever between either SSD. The typical users lightning fast SSD experience is the result of disk access times which are the same between most SSDs, whereas the new native PCIe transfer speeds will be a godsend to media professionals who transfer hundreds of gigabytes of highly incompressible media daily."

    Review HP Spectre 13-h205eg x2 Convertible - NotebookCheck.net Reviews

    "Storage Solution
    AS SSD benchmark

    HP could not integrate a common 2.5-inch drive due to the limited space, but used a compact mSATA SSD instead. More precisely the Samsung PM841, a familiar drive found in several other reviews.

    Besides their high reliability, Samsung SSDs are also known for their excellent performance. Especially the sequential transfer rate (read) of more than 500 MB/s is impressive, while the write performance of only 130 MB/s is just mediocre. The latter is the result of the small capacity of 128 GB - a 256 GB would get higher results. However, more important in practice is the performance with small 4 K blocks and the PM841 can completely convince us in this regard.

    HD Tune
    CrystalDiskMark 3.0
    AS SSD
    hddimg
    Samsung SSD PM841 MZMTD128HAFV mSATA
    Transfer Rate Minimum: 259.7 MB/s

    Transfer Rate Maximum: 375 MB/s

    Transfer Rate Average: 356.2 MB/s

    Access Time: 0.1 ms

    Burst Rate: 141.6 MB/s

    CPU Usage: 22.7 %

    System Performance
    Regardless of the slightly lower CPU performance, the Spectre x2 is on a level with its competitors in PCMark 7. The benchmarks of the PCMark series mainly evaluate the storage performance besides the CPU, so our review unit benefits from the fast Samsung SSD.

    The subjective impression is also dominated by the SSD with short loading times and a very responsive system - users should not notice any differences to a more powerful device in many situations. You will only see the limitations of the ULV hardware in very demanding scenarios."

    More at Review HP Spectre 13-h205eg x2 Convertible - NotebookCheck.net Reviews

    HP Spectre 13 Ultrabook Review - Editors' Choice - LAPTOP

    "Thanks to its 128GB solid-state drive, the Spectre 13t booted Windows 8.1 in just 10 seconds. The Acer Aspire S7 was one second faster, while the ATIV Book 9 Plus was a second slower.

    The Spectre's SSD also helped it transfer files at a breakneck pace, moving 4.97GB of mixed media files in just 32 seconds. That equals a rate of 159 MBps, which is faster than the category average of 111 MBps, as well as the Acer Aspire S7's 113 MBps and Samsung ATIV Book 9 Plus' 127 MBps. That said, the MacBook Air handily beat all three notebooks with its impressive transfer rate of 242 MBps."

    BTW, my Split x2s with Win8 cold boots to password prompt in 5-6 sec & when removing password in a guest account boots to metro tiles in 7-8 seconds; Win8.1 allows boot into desktop which should still be doable in <10 sec.. Currently I'm more concerned with software bottlenecks & wanting more than the 4GB RAM offered in USA x2s..


  5. #85
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    Cool Re: HP Spectre X2

    Quote Originally Posted by nick_white View Post
    Any updates?
    I'm still evaluating but How to Make the Windows Desktop Work Well on High-DPI Displays and Fix Blurry Fonts has mostly corrected scaling issues with specific apps that Win8 scaling didn't help.

    The brighter 1080p panel is nicer to use than the 768p panel especially in tablet & sunny situations but it does have a top layer sparkly effect (I also noticed it on the Spectre x2 at the Microsoft store) most notable with white-lite backgrounds that is not there in the 768 panels of the BestBuy Split x2 or Envy x2 that still catches my eyes. The BestBuy Split x2 during Black Friday was $200 off & $200 less than my upgraded HP Split 13t-g100 x2 PC | HP® Official Store even 15% off with coupons so it was more of a bargain but I do like the sharpness & dual band Wi-Fi upgrades..

    I couldn't find an old capacitive stylus but a simple moist q-tip cotton swab alone worked & apparently I'm not the only one who thought of such a homemade stylus https://www.google.com/#q=q+tip+stylus & DIY Capacitive Stylus | MAKE..

  6. #86
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    Default Re: HP Spectre X2

    Quote Originally Posted by TABLETBOOKPC_HYBRIDS View Post
    Why are you a busy mobile media professional?

    Both HP Split 13t-g100 x2 PC & Spectre x2 ( Manuals for HP Spectre 13t-h200 CTO x2 PC | HP® Support ) are listed on pg 9 of http://h10032.www1.hp.com/ctg/Manual/c03957651.pdf under storage with :

    "Tablet: Support for the following mSATA3 solid-state drives:
    ● 128-MB EM (MLC mSATA)
    ● 128-MB
    ● 64-MB
    Keyboard base (HP Split x2): Optional support for a 5.0-mm (0.2 in), 500-GB, 5400-rpm, SATA hard drive"

    The Manuals for HP Spectre 13t-3000 CTO Ultrabook | HP® Support does list on pg 9 of http://h10032.www1.hp.com/ctg/Manual/c04055643.pdf under Solid-state drive with:

    "Single M.2 SSD Configuration as storage
    Supports the following SSDs:
    ● 512-GB
    ● 256-GB
    ● 128-GB"

    Despite this according to limited tests in reviews however the Spectre data rates are not significantly different than the Spectre x2 & as Toshiba HG5D Series SATA M.2 SSD Review (512GB) - Amazing Performance in a SATA M.2 SSD | The SSD Review mentions "we have reviewed one of each with the ADATA AXNS360E 128GB SATA M.2 SSD reaching speeds of 550MB/s while the Samsung XP941 512GB PCIe M.2 SSD more than doubled that at 1.2GB/s. The important thing for all to remember is that, regardless of the speed, the typical user will never be able to visibly observe any difference whatsoever between either SSD. The typical users lightning fast SSD experience is the result of disk access times which are the same between most SSDs, whereas the new native PCIe transfer speeds will be a godsend to media professionals who transfer hundreds of gigabytes of highly incompressible media daily."

    Review HP Spectre 13-h205eg x2 Convertible - NotebookCheck.net Reviews

    The Spectre's SSD also helped it transfer files at a breakneck pace, moving 4.97GB of mixed media files in just 32 seconds. That equals a rate of 159 MBps, which is faster than the category average of 111 MBps, as well as the Acer Aspire S7's 113 MBps and Samsung ATIV Book 9 Plus' 127 MBps. That said, the MacBook Air handily beat all three notebooks with its impressive transfer rate of 242 MBps."

    BTW, my Split x2s with Win8 cold boots to password prompt in 5-6 sec & when removing password in a guest account boots to metro tiles in 7-8 seconds; Win8.1 allows boot into desktop which should still be doable in <10 sec.. Currently I'm more concerned with software bottlenecks & wanting more than the 4GB RAM offered in USA x2s..

    Thanks so much for finding this comparison!

    I do believe I am in the niche of consumers who really benefit from the ability to have a PCIe connection. I work with files that are typically in the 200K - 3M size. Well above the 32K mark where disk access times becomes less important. I work with thousands, and sometimes over a million, such files a day.

    I disagree, though, with some of the sentiment mentioned in the review. It is certainly not wholly wrong, but there are some countervailing points and a couple errors.

    First, I do agree that many users will not (currently) see much difference between a SATA versus a PCI interface. Part of that is that PCIe access times actually tend to be worse than SATA 3 times, but part of it is that the M.2 interface is itself new, and comparing a more mature technology (fabricating disks for a SATA III port as compared to an M.2 port with either male connection) to a less mature one is going to give the former an advantage.

    I see two possible ways for the future to unfold w/r/t notebook SSDs:
    1) M.2 PCIe becomes more mainstream and manufacturers get better at improving performance with them.
    2) USB 3.1 is very aggressively embraced, and external SSDs become more commonplace.

    This assumes that there is no real sea change in the adoption of thunderbolt technology on PCs, which is always a possibility, but now that 4x PCIe M.2 cards are a reality and USB has proven itself to be a staple, I just don't see that happening.

  7. #87
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    Default Re: HP Spectre X2

    Two notes for anyone still considering whether to purchase an x2 versus some other similar option:

    1. The _Thinkpad_ Yoga does have a M.2 slot, but it is only 42mm, so it won't support large drives.
    2. The newish Asus 300LA appears to have a full-sized M.2 slot and may even come with a PCI M.2 drive natively.

  8. #88
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    Default Re: HP Spectre X2

    Quote Originally Posted by TABLETBOOKPC_HYBRIDS View Post
    Currently I'm more concerned with software bottlenecks & wanting more than the 4GB RAM offered in USA x2s..
    I've ordered my Specte x2 last week - the old model.

    The 8GB version isn't available in my country and I don't want to drive ~500 miles to get one with a different keyboard layout. I called stores in three other european countries and all have the 8GB on shelves.

    Is the combination 4GB + SSD (swap space) working or not (MS Office, multitasking, multiple browser tabs)? I will try to order the HD kit next week and to install a 2nd SSD, but I guess it will be a SATA2 only and not a SATA3 interface.

  9. #89
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    Cool Re: HP Spectre X2

    M.2 NGFF PCIe is expected to become more common in 2014 & USB 3.1 adoption will hopefully not take as long as USB 3.0 did.

    My USB 3.0 2TB WD My Passport HD took 45 sec today to transfer a file over 4.5+ GB but that's just a single file, a week ago I did transfer over 64GB of mixed files from tiny to huge to a 128GB sdcard & it took longer than what would really wow me so if this was a daily occurrence I would be more concerned. RAM speed-limits on the other hand I reach daily & SSDs can't compete with RAM speed. See memory - Why not use SSD space as RAM? - Super User & How to Turn Extra Memory Into a RAM Disk - Windows 7 - LAPTOP for discussions on how much faster RAM is than SSDs.

    I've been waiting years for this form factor so I didn't want to wait further indefinitely for perfection & I use the detachable silent tablet end of the Split x2 daily so I wouldn't want give up on those features. If you need faster transfer speeds now & willing to give up on detachability than you could consider:

    Sony VAIO Pro 13 (SVP1321BPXB) Review | Ultrabook Reviews

    "The VAIO Pro 13 booted Windows 8 in a mere 7 seconds, matching or beating most Windows 8 Ultrabooks. The PCIe SSD really showed its mettle in our File Transfer test, duplicating 4.97GB of files in just 13 seconds. That equals a transfer rate of 391.5 MBps. This beats every other ultraportable we've tested in the last year, including the Kirabook (221.3 MBps), XPS 13 (164.2 MBps) and even the dual SSD Aspire S7 (318 MBps)."

    MacBook Pro 13-inch with Retina Display - 2013 Review - LAPTOP

    The Thunderbolt 2 equipped "MacBook Pro took just 12 seconds to boot into OS X Mavericks, which is almost half the average (20 seconds), but slower than the Samsung (11 seconds), Acer (9 seconds) and Sony (7 seconds). Still, the new PCIe flash memory in the Mac was blazing fast, duplicating 4.97GB of multimedia files in just 17 seconds, for a rate of 299.4 MBps. That's more than twice as fast as the ATIV Book 9 Plus (127 MBps), Aspire S7 (113 MBps) and the category average (109 MBps). Only the Sony VAIO Pro (392 MBps) proved faster."

    The Asus 300LA if it does have M.2 PCIe is still not fanless & reportedly noisy, has significantly less battery life & only one USB port but if you are sure it has the faster transfer speeds you need than you could try to check it out, hopefully formal reviews will be better than ASUS Transformer Book TX300 Review | Laptop Reviews

    Let us know how it goes & if you feel like it more about your use case


    Quote Originally Posted by Zukem View Post
    Thanks so much for finding this comparison!

    I do believe I am in the niche of consumers who really benefit from the ability to have a PCIe connection. I work with files that are typically in the 200K - 3M size. Well above the 32K mark where disk access times becomes less important. I work with thousands, and sometimes over a million, such files a day.

    I disagree, though, with some of the sentiment mentioned in the review. It is certainly not wholly wrong, but there are some countervailing points and a couple errors.

    First, I do agree that many users will not (currently) see much difference between a SATA versus a PCI interface. Part of that is that PCIe access times actually tend to be worse than SATA 3 times, but part of it is that the M.2 interface is itself new, and comparing a more mature technology (fabricating disks for a SATA III port as compared to an M.2 port with either male connection) to a less mature one is going to give the former an advantage.

    I see two possible ways for the future to unfold w/r/t notebook SSDs:
    1) M.2 PCIe becomes more mainstream and manufacturers get better at improving performance with them.
    2) USB 3.1 is very aggressively embraced, and external SSDs become more commonplace.

    This assumes that there is no real sea change in the adoption of thunderbolt technology on PCs, which is always a possibility, but now that 4x PCIe M.2 cards are a reality and USB has proven itself to be a staple, I just don't see that happening.

  10. #90
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    Lightbulb Re: HP Spectre X2

    An 8GB RAM model can't be delivered to you?

    I wish I could tell you that the changes (disabled SuperFetch & increase Virtual Memory size pagefiles) discussed on HP Spectre X2 have made a real change but the bottomline is when I'm running out of RAM in Task Manager I notice a performance hit so I tend to reboot if I have the opportunity.

    As I mentioned in my last post "RAM limits on the other hand I reach daily & SSDs can't compete with RAM speed. See memory - Why not use SSD space as RAM? - Super User & How to Turn Extra Memory Into a RAM Disk - Windows 7 - LAPTOP for discussions on how much faster RAM is than SSDs."

    4GB RAM is manageable but 8GB RAM would change how I use this pc & really improve my computing experience. I was hoping not to have to keep my eyes on Task Manager Memory like the old days so I may still return this considering I already have another 4GB Split x2 (without the HP upgraded 1080p & dual band Wi-Fi). I hope 8GB RAM will become available in the US asap & if I'm still within the 21 day return window I'd return this 4GB model for an 8GB model. If I didn't get the BestBuy Split x2 ultrabook for $650+tax on BlackFriday bargain deal (was ordered the last Friday of November) I would not consider returning this HP upgraded model. I still like the dual band Wi-Fi & 1080p screen but I really would appreciate 8GB RAM for an "upgraded" model if it were available in the US..

    Not sure if excalibur1814 ( see HP Spectre X2 ) has any more updates for us?

    BTW, rather than another HD I just got http://www.amazon.com/Kingston-Digit...=128gb+sd+card for the keyboard & http://www.amazon.com/SanDisk-microS...=64+gb+microsd for the tablet & have a 2 TB USB 3.0 portable HD at http://www.amazon.com/Passport-Porta...WD+My+Passport


    Quote Originally Posted by HuckleBoo View Post
    I've ordered my Specte x2 last week - the old model.

    The 8GB version isn't available in my country and I don't want to drive ~500 miles to get one with a different keyboard layout. I called stores in three other european countries and all have the 8GB on shelves.

    Is the combination 4GB + SSD (swap space) working or not (MS Office, multitasking, multiple browser tabs)? I will try to order the HD kit next week and to install a 2nd SSD, but I guess it will be a SATA2 only and not a SATA3 interface.
    Last edited by TABLETBOOKPC_HYBRIDS; 01-26-2014 at 09:18 PM.

 

 

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