What Laptops have Wacom?

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  1. #1
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    Default What Laptops have Wacom?

    So yea.. any newer models have Wacom Technology?

    I really like Wacom (drawing/artistic use of course) but the only models I really see are out of date and have low end graphics cards.

    Want more... want better.. want new technology.

    the HP TX2510us is pretty much 'perfect' except the fact the GPU overheats due to a Manufacturer flaw. It could use a bit more power in the GPU department as well. (can we say, early model Xbox360? Lolz same problems)

    So... what's out there? I can't find many models since everything is going to Cap. touch screens to use finger(s) to do everything. I WANT the pen, or better, technology so I can use special pens like this:
    https://www.wacom.com/en/Store/Pages/Product.aspx?product=KP400E2&crumb={A8DA06FA-349A-4FF4-A998-DF0429E676DF}


    So... anything?

  2. #2
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    Default Re: What Laptops have Wacom?

    There are a lot of [recent] Tablet PC's that have Wacom active digitizers; to list by manufacturer and newest to oldest:

    HP 2760p, 2740p, 2730p | Fujitsu T901 &T731, T900 & T730, T5010 & T4410 | Lenovo X220t, X201t, X200t

    The X220t is best avoided because of the bad accuracy, stupid screen size and resolution, and driver issues as well as build quality and design problems. The Tm2 is about the last Tablet PC you would want to get (crap screen -it is just completly worthless- and the ULV CPU it uses is just pathetic for anything and couple that with a hot running and under powered ATI GPU and you have a system that is not worth a second thought!)

    Of the models I listed, I would recommend the Fujitsu T901, T900, or T5010 as they are very strong performers that feature Full Voltage Intel Core 2 Duo, Core-i Arrandale or Sandy Bridge; the best point about these is they have the largest and best screens of current Tablet PC's (13.3" @ 16:10, 1280 x 800 resolution, and they are always AFFS+ type screens which have great outdoor usability, and amazing viewing angles with high contrast).. nothing quite beats a larger screen to work on, and everything except the 13.3" Fujitsu's and the X220t, use 12.1" 16:10 screens that are IMO too limited in screen realestate to be used as a solo machine (the 12.1" Tablet PC's are good for small on the go use, but beyond that you will greatly appreciate the larger size of the 13.3" screen)


    of course those are just the 'current' models, but when it comes to digital art, almost any computer is still relevant, even the 4:3 14.1" 1400 x 1050 Toshiba M4 I got a short while ago; it may 'only' have a single core Pentium M with a decent dedicated GPU [for the time, it is a bit better than the Intel GMA4500 GPU found with Core 2 Duo based systems], but it still performs as well as my overclocked 2730p when using CS5 (well, not quite on-par, but nearly as good and the large screen with great colors and the pin head accurate screen it has make up for the minor performance difference many times over)... and even though you can pick up a M4 or a similar 'old' Tablet PC for $100-300, they aren't for everyone as they have some minor issues (granted, so do brand new Tablet PC's), but buying used means it will have a little wear ant tear on the edges, but it will still be a solid performer and at a great price...
    There is really a lot out there to choose from, it just depends on what features are really important to you and which you should forget about


    You will only be able to use certain pens with Tablet PC's because most of their different lines run at a different frequencies, so the pen you linked is a no-go. The best, and most ergonomic pen widely available for Tablet PC's is by far the "Axiotron Studio Pen" you can get them from ebay for $35 shipped, which is a great deal because it has the pen, a bunch of nibs, and a nib changer
    Current: HP 2730p Win 7 & Linux Mint | Toshiba M4 | Motion M1400 renice 120GB SSD | ITRONIX IX-325 | Motion F5 (U7500 update) | Fujitsu P1620 | T4220 w/SXGA+ 160GB Intel X18-M & 1TB HDD in bay | broken TC4400 [for experimentation] | i5 3570K mITX desktop w/GTX460 | ASUS N10j
    Gone but not Forgotten: HP Tm2 | HP Slate 500 | HP touchpad 32GB | 6-core desktop

  3. #3
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    Default Re: What Laptops have Wacom?

    Actually I was using the spray pen as an example since I didn't know what tech was out, kinda figured it was only gonna work for it's models, but nothing hurts in trying.

    What I need is pretty simple when boiled down:
    1.8Ghz+ CPU (2.0 better, dual core better, etc)
    2GB+ RAM
    60GB Harddrive
    DECENT Graphics - Dedicated would be wonderful, but just something more on the up than the a HD 3200 mobility chip. While the chip will do mostly what I want, it never hurts to have more GPU power to handle artistic needs.

    Wacom - 256 or even more levels of pressure sensitive (although I think laptops usually only have 256....)

    Screen size actually doesn't matter or bother to me. 12 inch is fine, I will manage. Being able to use with lights/glare is a big factor though - outide use would be amazing.

    Battery life is the other big thing, I gotta be able to doodle for at least 2 hours without pluggin in. Doesn't sound like much, and honestly isn't really, especially if you consider Expansion Bay Secondary Batteries in mind.

    Weight: Don't care. Trust me, I don't, and I know what weight really does, when lugging around, it truely won't bother me if it weighs in 10Lbs. If you really want a limit- then fine, nothing over 12lbs, including batteries.

    The biggest thing is really the GPU here, if you can find a 1.6Ghz single core with 2GB+supported RAM runnin on a 12 inch LCD that has a whoppin amazing GPU - I'd prolly take it (as long as it was wacom enabled of course)

    GPU really effects what I can and cannot due on it.
    Ideally it would run Zbrush and alternative 3D modeling things (even if it takes a bit to render, the main rendering will be on my home PC, just need to be able to work on it wherever I go) Paint Tools SAI (drawing/sketching/color)

    Would be nice to have a few stress relief games without stressing/overheating the system too, but other then those big things, I'd really like it to do typical Computer stuff, Email, YouTube, Facebook, (so flash definately needed etc)

    I really hate "touch with your finger" though, it seems to be dominating the market and doesn't really do what I need to.


    Got something a bit more on the power side of the M4?
    RAMs a bit low for modern age (2GB max)
    CPU is a tad slow for some applications (might work with tweaks, but might as well look for what else)
    Would really like Wireless N (I am sure there are a number of cards to get this though)
    GPU does list a tad higher then the ATI HD3200 - still striving for a bit more then (maybe since it's a card there are others that will work as replacements? dedicated and all)

    Will be mainly used for Zbrush and Paint Tools SAI, and 3D applications liek Zbrush tend to need a bit more in the power department.



    How well does "Intel HD Graphics" hold up?

    Cuz.. the Asus Eee Slate EP121 has wacom and is pretty sleak with it's included bluetooth keyboard.
    Last edited by Kissker; 08-11-2011 at 11:54 AM.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: What Laptops have Wacom?

    I think the Fujitsu T901 is really what you're looking for.
    It's expensive because it's brand new but after a while you can get excellent condition Fujitsus for very cheap on their refurbished outlet.

    It's the only new Wacom-powered Tablet PC with a dedicated GPU. It's got:
    Top-quality bright 13.3" LCD (the biggest you can get on a modern Tablet PC)
    2nd generation Intel Core i5 or i7 CPU (2.5GHz-2.7GHz)
    nVidia NVS 4200M with Optimus
    Up to 8GB DDR3 RAM (4GB x 2)
    Uses the Centrino Advanced-N 6205 for WiFi
    Supports standard 2.5" HDDs/SDDs
    Optical drive can be hot-swapped out for a second battery

    Only complaints about this model is that it's one of the heavier Tablet PCs out there but it's WAY below 10lbs (more like 4.5lbs fully stocked).
    Brand new it'll probably run you a little over $2000.
    In a year you can probably get a like-new refurb direct from Fujitsu for around $1100.

    Fujitsu T5010
    - C2D 2.4GHz / 4GB DDR3 / 160GB X25-M G2 SSD / Windows 7 Pro 32-bit
    Used for Photoshop illustration - see the results at LunaKenei at deviantART

  5. #5
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    Default Re: What Laptops have Wacom?

    The EP121 uses a Intel Core-i Arrandale ULV [Ultra Low Voltage] processor and the Intel HD GPU, it will do pretty well with z-brush; but the Full Voltage processors (even the Core 2 Duo's found in the T5010 coupled with the slightly older GMA 4500) found in other Tablet PC's will outpace the EP121 easily, the ULV architecture is just not that powerful and it is not really more efficient than the Full Voltage processors... If you really want a EP121 it should prove to be pretty capable (there are members in the EP121 section using it with z-brush), but it is expensive, not really available anywhere, and doesn't have the best performance


    To run Z-brush you don't need a computer with a dedicated GPU, but it would help a little bit compared to a system with a Intel GPU... but like I said you will want a large a screen as you can get, and the 13.3" Fujitsu's have a great quality one, and have the processing and graphics power to handily lick Z-brush, as well as the slightly older ones being a good bargain on ebay (a T5010 will run you about $500, a T900 will be $800-900, and a T901 would most likely be $1,000+ if you can get a Fujitsu refurbished unit on a good day)


    I have used my HP 2730p (Low Voltage Core 2 Duo that is slightly OC'd, with Intel GMA 4500) for 3d modeling -Autocad 3D- and I made the 3d models and rendered the models seen in this thread http://forum.tabletpcreview.com/hard...ablet-pcs.html The model environments are not just one object, but about 2 dozen versions of the final model as I made revisions and changes to the design and kept the old ones to the side for quick reference... but coming from a ULV Tm2 I can tell you that there is something seriously flawed with the ULV architecture that it is so under-powered and yet it hardly more efficient; many other users have noted the same or similar comparisons between old processors and the Core-i ULV in teh EP121 (that would be that the ULV in the EP121 gets its ass handed to it by first generation Core 2 Duo processors; then there the issues with the EP121 having down clocking issues where the GPu is constantly down clocked, and the CPU often gets down clocked which result in poor performance at times)


    So look at ebay for the Fujitsu T5010 and T900 because they are guranteed to have a great looking screen and to be very solid performers without making you eat top shelf ramen for the next six months
    Current: HP 2730p Win 7 & Linux Mint | Toshiba M4 | Motion M1400 renice 120GB SSD | ITRONIX IX-325 | Motion F5 (U7500 update) | Fujitsu P1620 | T4220 w/SXGA+ 160GB Intel X18-M & 1TB HDD in bay | broken TC4400 [for experimentation] | i5 3570K mITX desktop w/GTX460 | ASUS N10j
    Gone but not Forgotten: HP Tm2 | HP Slate 500 | HP touchpad 32GB | 6-core desktop

  6. #6
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    Default Re: What Laptops have Wacom?

    fyi the Asus Eee slate was on ebay for under $1,000, brand new. So it wasn't really "not available" and was rather affordable

    Honestly I can't bring myself to paying $2,000 for this.


    I mean the reasoning is pretty simple, $1,000 can get a quite decent Laptop (CPU/RAM/GPU wise) that is Not touch screen. Another thousand can get a Cintiq 12wx

    While it's only a 12 inch drawing screen they are effing amazing. I'd just be dual screening (which means more space for art on the tablet side, not-so-often used tools on the laptop side)

    Since no tablet/laptop offers like 1024 levels of sensitivity I figure that's the better way to go for $2,000+ budget.



    For the current price for performance ratio, what's your verdict on the HP TX2500 series Convertable Laptops? (Despite the overheating, I know a cure for that, involves removing the stupid thermal compound they use, and the stupid thermal pad, and replacing it with solid copper and some good Shin Etsu thermal compound)
    I've actually seen Zbrush and Paint Tools run on there - smoothly, with windows 7. (upgraded to 4GB RAM of course) the price is under $500, under 400 most the time even with new parts needed (due to age of the system and it's bad rep) The primary use would be drawing/colour scheme designs, Zbrush is a secondary thing - so even if I do use it, honestly I don't see myself using it 'constantly' on there, that's what my Quad Core Desktop is for.
    Then if any games go on beyond Facebook/flash it would be Minecraft, which apparently runs on there as well.
    Last edited by Kissker; 08-11-2011 at 04:33 PM.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: What Laptops have Wacom?

    lets lay some definition down first so there isn't confusion about it:
    -Tablet PC is a computer based device that combines mobile computing parts (about the equivalent of a moderately powerful notebook of the time) with a screen that has a active digitizer... as new devices these will burn a hole right through your bank account, but buying used is very economical and practical because it gets you the latest and greatest [granted from a year or three ago, but it is still very relevant performance wise]
    -'entertainment tablet' is a small entertainment oriented device running limited hardware (often cell phone like internals, or low end netbook level components) sometimes running Android, sometimes Wondows 7 always with a touch-only screen (lack of active digitizer)... not the devices to look at all!


    Well, a Tablet PC has the strong points in portability, independence, and ergonomics, they lack the raw muscle and some of the qualities of a high end workstation Laptop + Cintiq setup... but if you don't need portability, ability to have one device thst has it all packaged as one, or better ergonomics at all (so it would be desk bound device) then a Laptop + Cintiq may be a decent option... But a 12" Cintiq isn't exactly what you would call a perfect device, especially with the need for constant external power, 3 sets of wires (USB cable for digitizer, VGA/ DVI for video input, and power), and almost 0 portability or usability when you are on the go.
    If you are going the route of a Cintiq then getting a 21" Cintiq is pretty much a must, because while much more expensive, it will get you a large 4:3 not-so-high resolution display that makes it easier to work with less clutter: If you are inverting $1000 in a Cintiq you may as well go the whole 9-yards and do it right the first time; especially since it sounds like you have a decent desktop to use it with.
    But if you are going the route of a Tablet PC it is best to get one that has a good screen (colors, contrast, viewing angles, brightness, as big as possible) and one that was a higher end and reliable model of its time; otherwise it is sorta dumb to get something that has an awful screen and hardware that doesn't run well


    The pressure sensitivity levels is blown way out of proportion, in use, there is close to 0 difference between them (you will get a smooth pressure curve out of either a Tablet PC or a Cintiq/ Intuos, the only real difference is the Tablet PC doesn't have quite the finesse the others do -again, when actually using it there is really little difference)



    The TX1000/ TX2000 series are a bigger no-go than the Tm2 is, it has a bad screen as well (from what I have seen, they are both equally terrible, but the TX's being worse because of a poor;y implemented 'matte' finish), the overheating issue is because it uses older AMD 'mobile' processors (really poor performance processors that runs very hot and with bad efficiency, thermal paste will not help beyond reducing operating temperature by 2-3 C but it will still be burning a hole in your lap), the huge issue with them is the GPU's have lots of flaws (they can burn out or cause corrupted output after being used a bit too much, and they have a major issue with the solder used can break away and cause the GPU to no longer function -there was a majior lawsuit a while back over this, Nvidia was guilty of using garbage solder... and they are not that powerful at all)



    The Full Voltage Core 2 Duo processors and Intel GMA 4500 found in the T5010 really are a great combo that will give you good battery life and amazing performance, and even handle a bit of gaming (minecraft is no problem at all because it is such a low-resource game), then the great screen it has, and the ability to get all that for around $500... it would be a mistake to pass up such a Tablet PC to get a severely flawed Tablet PC like the TX/ TX2 just because you think the GPU it has is 'good' even though the GPU and CPU suck
    Current: HP 2730p Win 7 & Linux Mint | Toshiba M4 | Motion M1400 renice 120GB SSD | ITRONIX IX-325 | Motion F5 (U7500 update) | Fujitsu P1620 | T4220 w/SXGA+ 160GB Intel X18-M & 1TB HDD in bay | broken TC4400 [for experimentation] | i5 3570K mITX desktop w/GTX460 | ASUS N10j
    Gone but not Forgotten: HP Tm2 | HP Slate 500 | HP touchpad 32GB | 6-core desktop

  8. #8
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    Default Re: What Laptops have Wacom?

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent 9 View Post
    The TX1000/ TX2000 series are a bigger no-go than the Tm2 is, it has a bad screen as well (from what I have seen, they are both equally terrible, but the TX's being worse because of a poor;y implemented 'matte' finish), the overheating issue is because it uses older AMD 'mobile' processors (really poor performance processors that runs very hot and with bad efficiency, thermal paste will not help beyond reducing operating temperature by 2-3 C but it will still be burning a hole in your lap), the huge issue with them is the GPU's have lots of flaws (they can burn out or cause corrupted output after being used a bit too much, and they have a major issue with the solder used can break away and cause the GPU to no longer function -there was a majior lawsuit a while back over this, Nvidia was guilty of using garbage solder... and they are not that powerful at all)

    Actually I have to stop you here. The biggest problems are a gap between the GPU chip and the Heatsink (which is shared with the CPU). The secondary problem is the crud solder holding the chip on (no-lead green formula that melts too easily)
    Because of the gap (nearly 1mm in size) they use a thermal pad to attempt to fill it, this doesn't do the job, at all. Combined with the cheap-grade thermal compound used and it hits 90+C all the time.

    Now, if you removed the pad and compound, gave it good compound, and replaced the pad with a solid copper plate (with compound on both sides for conductivity) the heatsink would then apply pressure to the copper plate, and then the chip evenly - while giving a better thermal transferrance then the stupid pads.

    In average, -12c were the temps, but they had a variable as high as -25C that puts the GPU in a much, MUCH more stable range - combine with the pressure from the heatsink/copper pushing on the chip - even if the temps did hit 90+ again - they would last longer since the chip is being actively pushed into place keeping it there while the solder can re-harden as it cools off.

    Yes, major design flaws, but not Deal breaking. The screen is a bummer, I've seen it only used Indoors and I can deal with it there, so it would be an indoor only thing.

    I did do my research on the TX2000 series though, and Was prepared for this. Some simple do-it-yourself solutions can even 'reflow' a bad GPU for under $30 cost to the owner.

    With that Flaw aside - the only bummer I really get out of the Tx2500 series is the Screen/Glare/gloss whatever you wanna call it. I plan to use a custom made cooling pad that clips onto the laptop (designed out, will built to whatever model I get so the fans align with the vents) so air intake or "burning your lap" isn't going to be an issue.

    I am a big "DIY" guy. In fact Ben H. inspired me to create a lot of things, at least on paper. I create other things in real fabrication (like Gears Of War CoG armor) so a little creative finesse with my artistic abilities can easily outpour into my Laptops "safety' measures.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: What Laptops have Wacom?

    All I can say is while it is fun to tinker, there is a limit to what is worth it and not; the TX/ TX2 are older consumer grade Tablet PC's if you have ever held or seen the crap Sony or HP consumer laptops you will know what I mean by consumer grade (everything from a poor design to poor quality control, to poor parts and performance that cause poor reliability and operation)

    It isn't screen glare causing the issue, it is that the actual screen that has poor contrast and colors, with only a few degrees of your movement before colors begin to shift and invert (so the reds and greens and blues no longer look red, green, or blue but more of a dark greyscale with a little bit of off/ inverted tint -that happens when you look at it from anything but straight on), as well as really bad 'light shift' (where the screen looks bright when viewed head on, but move to a different angle and it will quickly become dark) then you have the screen's protective front that is a cheap plastic and 'matte' which greatly reduces the clarity of things on screen and adds a lot of visual noise to the screen... all this stuff means the screen is = to crap; and a crappy screen on a Tablet PC is [to make a stupid analogy] like a car that does 0-60 in 2minutes, takes 2 blocks to come to a stop, and has a windshield that obscures your vision makes no sense, right?

    I honestly don't get the attraction of a old AMD processor (very hot running as a chip, copper shim or not, inefficient, and not powerful); and that with the GPU that is not that good (a low end gaming GPU of years past will not be strong for games or 3d work; and when you have a processor that isn't good with that GPU you are getting a lot less performance in 3d modeling than something with a Full Voltage C2D with Intel GPU)


    If you really fee the urge to try a crappy consumer grade Tablet PC there is nothing I or anyone else can do to stop you, but I am trying to save you from having your first Tablet PC be a really crappy one
    Current: HP 2730p Win 7 & Linux Mint | Toshiba M4 | Motion M1400 renice 120GB SSD | ITRONIX IX-325 | Motion F5 (U7500 update) | Fujitsu P1620 | T4220 w/SXGA+ 160GB Intel X18-M & 1TB HDD in bay | broken TC4400 [for experimentation] | i5 3570K mITX desktop w/GTX460 | ASUS N10j
    Gone but not Forgotten: HP Tm2 | HP Slate 500 | HP touchpad 32GB | 6-core desktop

  10. #10
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    Default Re: What Laptops have Wacom?

    Well the biggest factor is cashflow right now. Need 'something' so I can get things rollin' here and don't have a ton o' cash to spend (nor do I make a ton o' cash to finance options, can't even afford $100/month payments the budget is so tight)


    And anything and everything that uses power, can be run off portable batteries, you just gotta have the right battery and a little knowledge in wiring. Lol.
    Last edited by Kissker; 08-11-2011 at 07:12 PM.

 

 

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